Original vs. soft-proof

[Skye]

In this thread there is a discussion about ICC profiles and being able to see the soft-proof before printing.
I'm hoping someone can expand this topic a bit more.


I'm using a Ricoh printer with the Sawgrass Vector & Photo ICC profiles. Colour profiling is handled by CorelDraw X5 or Photoshop CS4, and switched off in the printer driver. I'm soft proofing before I print onto Trupix.
My screens are calibrated using Spyder.

Here's a vector in CD - using Adobe(1998) as the document profile:[ATTACH=CONFIG]2411[/ATTACH] . This[ATTACH=CONFIG]2412[/ATTACH] is what CD shows when soft-proofing using Sawgrass ICC.
When printing, using this setup, the print & mug accurately reflect the soft-proof.

So how do I print something closer to the original?

1. If I had a profile done for my printer would I get a closer rendition to the original?
2. Or - have I chosen colours, in this instance, that the printer can't match?
3. Given that not all colours convert to the printer's colour range:
   - Do you work in soft-proofing mode when creating a vector images?
   - In PS how are you editing photos to make the soft proof closer to the original?

Thanks
Karen

[spongerobinson]

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that soft-proofing using the Sawgrass (or any other) ICC, will show what the image should look like printed on paper, but not when it's transferred to a mug.

The sublimation process makes the colours change slightly, so thats the whole point of the ICC, to counter-act these changes. I think if the mug looks exactly the same as whats on the paper before transfer, there must be some problem?

[Skye]

Thanks spongerobinson.

So, if I understand you, my ICC is fine. It's the transfer to the mug - times/temps - I need to play with?

Karen

[spongerobinson]

well from the screengrab you posted, your ICC certainly looks to be doing the right thing in soft-proof mode. are you basically saying that when you transfer onto a mug, it looks the same as what you've printed on paper...i.e. there is no change in the colours when transferred?

might be worth getting the opinions of some of the more experienced members on here, as I'm only going on what I've picked up from others over time!

[Skye]

I'd say that the colours on the mug were more vibrant but as far as the "colour" is concerned it's much closer to the soft-proof than the original. Unfortunately I've given the mug away so can't photograph it.

I'll play with the press settings after lunch and post some pics.

[spongerobinson]

it's also a possibility that the colours you were trying to print were 'out of gamut'. i had a discussion with some other members on here a while back about that problem, so be worth searching for the thread maybe!

[pisquee]

OK, let's back up a bit here.
You are thinking in the right direction. The soft proof on screen will give you a good impression of how your final product will print. The soft proof is not to see what the transfer paper will look like - there'd be no point in that. If you want the most accurate ICC for your printer and inks then getting a custom one made will be best.
As softproof gives you a good representation of what is going to print, when in this mode you want to adjust the colours of the artwork to be what you want to actually achieve, either as your original creation, or to match real world artwork that has been scanned in/photographed.
We do this in Photoshop, and use a range of adjustment layer tools to tweak colours and shift them to where we want them to be, or to move out of gamut colours to be in gamut.

[spongerobinson]

is the whole point of an ICC not that it adjusts the colours in your image for you, so that once you print and transfer to a substrate, it looks as close to the original as possible? i know some ICCs aren't as accurate as others, but is this not the general idea?

i would've thought that soft-proofing can only show you what the ICC is doing to the colours being sent to the printer...i don't see how it could simulate what is going to happen once the heat is applied and sublimation takes place?

[daviddeer]

i would've thought that soft-proofing can only show you what the ICC is doing to the colours being sent to the printer...i don't see how it could simulate what is going to happen once the heat is applied and sublimation takes place?

I create my own icc profiles and you have to print and then sublimate the colour chart onto a substrate such a white metal sublimation sheet before using the profile device. Then you know the final output is going to proof correctly. You are correct in that many icc profiles show only the result of a scan of the printed page by a colourimeter, which is why you should always find someone who can produce a profile from the finished article or a substrate which closely resembles it.

The soft proof will show what the final output will be, so you should turn it on in Photoshop and then adjust the image with it turned on until you achieve the desired result.
Strangely I found that when I had a working epson 1400 the sawgrass icc profile looked nothing like the final output in soft proof. But the sublimated result on the substrates was perfect so I never soft proofed anything and got the result I desired.

[spongerobinson]

I create my own icc profiles and you have to print and then sublimate the colour chart onto a substrate such a white metal sublimation sheet before using the profile device. Then you know the final output is going to proof correctly. You are correct in that many icc profiles show only the result of a scan of the printed page by a colourimeter, which is why you should always find someone who can produce a profile from the finished article or a substrate which closely resembles it.

The soft proof will show what the final output will be, so you should turn it on in Photoshop and then adjust the image with it turned on until you achieve the desired result.
Strangely I found that when I had a working epson 1400 the sawgrass icc profile looked nothing like the final output in soft proof. But the sublimated result on the substrates was perfect so I never soft proofed anything and got the result I desired.

thanks for the explanation...it's a confusing topic! like you, my sublimated results are generally ok so don't put too much thought into it! it is on our list to get a dedicated profile made soon though.