Oh Heck!......When things go not quite as planned

[Matt Quinn]

Have you gone to a Solicitor/Accountant at all to ask their advice. I know it is more money but surely it can't be correct or legal on what they are trying to claim.

I have to agree... MANY businesses involve situations where very high percentages of the man-hours worked cannot be directly charged to a client or attributed to a singular job or product. Video production - Only 10%-15% is spent actually filming or editing material... Indeed one of the things we teach students studying (programme) Production Management is that there is no such thing as free time - all business/work related activities, however minor, percolate through to the final invoice even if they can't be itemised...

Whether these things are profitable or not is another matter!

This is where time-and-motion studies pay dividends. - It's surprising how labout costs per product spiral when you actually DO take into account not only the primary and secondary but tertiary activities that go into getting a product onto the shelf!

...As I said previously; I know for a fact one DHSS tactic was to deny people things they were fully entitled to knowing that a proportion would simply 'fold' at the first hurdle. - More often than not deciscions given to claiments were in spectacular breach of the law, and collapsed under review. - But by that means they could massage their P.I.s - And in fact many of the statistic you hear about 'Benefit Cheats' are generated by extrapolating this sort of nefariously inaccurate data!

- The people you are dealing with ARE ex DHSS - And from a section that is legend for its spectacular incompetence. My instinct is that they are trying it on - And they DON'T have the last word! though they crack-on otherwise!

You need someone with professional experience to guide you. Advice from forums, neighbours etc is all very well; even if they do have some background knowledge - But this is a case of fold or get the proper help and advice.

[Ian M]

I'm going to see someone to get some advice on all this because I really am feeling very uneasy at what the decision was.

[smitch6]

good on you Ian don't let them grind you down
You are trying to earn your own money rather than living off the state so stick to your guns and fight them

you've got the support of everyone on here i'm sure

[Ian M]

good on you Ian don't let them grind you down
You are trying to earn your own money rather than living off the state so stick to your guns and fight them

you've got the support of everyone on here i'm sure

Thanks Steve & to everyone else too for all your help, advice & support it really does mean a lot to me.

Ian :biggrin:

[Ian M]

GOOD NEWS

I've been & got some advice today & there are good grounds for me to appeal against the decision. Turns out I should have been given the right to appeal but, there was nothing on the letter regarding this & this gives good grounds to have the decision reversed in itself as they got it wrong. I was also told they do have to take in to account any other work associated with the business which is counted as 'working hours'. This can include such things as driving to see a customer, delivering items or even going to pick something up such as items I use to print on. It should also include other things we do such as artwork on the PC or building a website or even printing letters & leaflets to use in a mailshot etc. I was told they cannot just go on the amount of sales alone & to pick what is the worst trading quarter for me makes the decision in itself flawed.

I was also told they have to allow time for things such as new product development where no sales would be forthcoming at such times & they should also know that most new businesses will not show any profit within the first few years of trading.

It's looking much better now & I have just spoken to HM Revenue & Customs & I got a really nice man this time who listened to everything I had to say. He said it does seem you do have a good case to appeal & he is sending me all the paperwork for me to go ahead with the appeal.

Thanks to everyone for all your advice & help & without you all I was so close to just buckling at the decision that was made.

Ian :biggrin:

[accdave]

GOOD NEWS

I've been & got some advice today & there are good grounds for me to appeal against the decision. Turns out I should have been given the right to appeal but, there was nothing on the letter regarding this & this gives good grounds to have the decision reversed in itself as they got it wrong. I was also told they do have to take in to account any other work associated with the business which is counted as 'working hours'. This can include such things as driving to see a customer, delivering items or even going to pick something up such as items I use to print on. It should also include other things we do such as artwork on the PC or building a website or even printing letters & leaflets to use in a mailshot etc. I was told they cannot just go on the amount of sales alone & to pick what is the worst trading quarter for me makes the decision in itself flawed.

I was also told they have to allow time for things such as new product development where no sales would be forthcoming at such times & they should also know that most new businesses will not show any profit within the first few years of trading.

Ian :biggrin:

We all know what it takes to run a business, anybody with at least one brain cell would also know, unfortunately you have had to deal with a government jobsworth who gets a kick out of his position. Apart from an appeal you should also have the right to perform a brain transplant between a goldfish and the aforementioned government jobsworth. Good luck Ian

[John G]

That's good news Ian, hope the appeal goes well and that you can put this behind you and get on with running a business.

[Andrew]

That certainly is good news. It was quite obvious the initial outcome was total rubbish but when it comes from HMRC you assume with their power that they know what they are talking about and their word is final. I have regular dealings with them and it is very hit and miss depending on who you get through to. Some are very helpful and will go out of their way to help you whilst others are the total opposite and don't give a damn about you. It's very wrong that it comes down to pot luck but this is often the case with the Public Sector as there seems little option for recourse when receiving bad service. Private sector workers could never get away with some of the stuff the worst Public Sector workers do.

Glad it is looking up.

[smitch6]

that's brill Ian lets hope they finally see sense and you get a better outcome this time

[Ian M]

Thanks everyone & I'll let you all know what happens.