can I use my existing printer?

[TonyM]

Hi all,
I have an Epson RX685. Could I use that with Sublimation ink or do I need to buy a new printer?
Is there a list of sublimation printers?
I a, considering getting an A3 if I need to buy a new one, any recommends?
I guess the Epson 1400. But when I type this in google it has no mention of sublimation? Is there more than one?

Many thanks

Tony

[Justin]

Epson 1400 is the one you want for sublimation. Unless you have the money to get a Ricoh 7000. 1400's are about £250 at the moment.

As far as I know the RX685 can't be used for subli.

Justin

[JSR]

Hi all,
I have an Epson RX685. Could I use that with Sublimation ink or do I need to buy a new printer?
Is there a list of sublimation printers?
I a, considering getting an A3 if I need to buy a new one, any recommends?
I guess the Epson 1400. But when I type this in google it has no mention of sublimation? Is there more than one?

Many thanks

Tony

You would need to jump through a lot of unnecessary hoops to get the RX685 running sublimation ink because it's not supported by the patent holder of desktop dye-sublimation ink. It wouldn't be impossible, but I wouldn't recommend it.

There's no mention of sublimation when you google for "Epson 1400" because there is no desktop inkjet printer that was designed by the manufacturer for sublimation ink. What happens is that, when Epson bring out a new printer that looks like it might be suitable for dye-sub ink, the patent holder for desktop dye sublimation (Sawgrass) create a colour correction profile for their ink that suits that printer and sources a suitable continuous ink system. Once this is done, properly licensed resellers of Sawgrass ink are able to sell the CISS, with ink and colour correction profile, for that specific printer.

In short - if Sawgrass don't support it, it's not really worth using it for dye-sub.

To find out which printers are currently supported, go to your favoured sublimation supplier (a good one is www.printerowners.co.uk) and browse their ink & printer section. Take note of the model numbers (there won't be many) and then find the cheapest place to buy your preferred printer (such as Amazon.co.uk) and then return to your supplier for the ink and CISS.

The seller of the printer and the manufacturer of the printer will not be able to help you with sublimation ink or a CISS, because the printer wasn't designed for that. You'll need to direct any issues you have to the supplier of your ink and CISS - so make sure you go to a reliable supplier.

If you're looking for an A3 printer, the best choice at the moment is the Epson 1400 - but they are working on a newer (cheaper) A3 model right now. That might be worth waiting for.

[mrs maggot]

JSR that is such a good and comprehensive post, i think it should be split off and copied onto its own locked post it will help everyone - esp if it was titled, dye sub printer - the basics or such.

you have put into a few words what i have tried to read in loads of posts, afterall the individual printer a person chooses will depend on what features they are looking for over and above A4 or A3 but its how to find the suitable list of printers - which you have now given which is great to see - thank you

[TonyM]

WOW, thanks JSR

I know I am in the right place now.
That was a brilliant answer.

Tony

[TonyM]

Hi again,

When I buy a printer and set it up to work with sublimation ink, is that all i can then use that printer for?
I guess what i mean is do I need to buy another A3 printer to produce say photographs and posters?
So one for Sub work, such as mugs, plates, Tshirts etc, set up with a sub ink CISS and then a second A3 set up with normal ink for photos etc. Or can the sub ink set up do both? Does cost come into the equation in this case, as I seem to find sub inks far more expensive than normal inks and probably therefore not viable?
Hmmm! so many questions? Sorry

Tony

[Paul]

you would print with subli ink but it would look awfull! colors wont be right at all. So you need diferent printer with normal inks.

Paul

[JSR]

When I buy a printer and set it up to work with sublimation ink, is that all i can then use that printer for?
I guess what i mean is do I need to buy another A3 printer to produce say photographs and posters?
So one for Sub work, such as mugs, plates, Tshirts etc, set up with a sub ink CISS and then a second A3 set up with normal ink for photos etc. Or can the sub ink set up do both?

The ink colours in dye-sublimation ink aren't the same as the ink colours from the printer manufacturer's ink (OEM). Sublimation ink reacts under heat and so Sawgrass provide a colour correction profile that will, as close as is practical, make the print look "right" after pressing to your substrate (such as a mug). They don't care what the ink looks like on the paper that comes out of the printer - that's of no importance compared to the finished product.

So, if you print a regular document *with* the sublimation ink, you're going to get some very funny results. It may be acceptable for draft prints, or prints for which the colour isn't totally relevant, but not for photos.

I occasionally use my Epson 1400 with dye-sub inks to print out A3 CAD drawings and mind maps, but these are effectively black line drawings. Dye-sub black isn't a particularly deep black on paper, but it serves the purpose for these prints.

It is possible to remove the dye-sub CISS and pop OEM inks back in it for regular printing, and swapping back to dye-sub afterwards, but it's not recommended. Every time you swap out, a certain amount of ink will be flushed through the printer. And every time you remove the CISS and put it back again, you run the risk of introducing air bubbles into the printhead - and if that happens, you'll really have a right day of it.

Does cost come into the equation in this case, as I seem to find sub inks far more expensive than normal inks and probably therefore not viable?

If you look into it, you'll find that's a wrong assumption to make. When you buy ink for a CISS, the common price is approximately £60 per colour for a 125ml bottle - that's about 50p per ml. OEM ink, such as from Epson, generally costs around £10 for a cartridge containing about 10ml of usable ink - that's about £1 per ml. This simple calculation shows that dye-sublimation ink, even at its most expensive, is still half the price of OEM ink. Makes you think.

If you do a lot of printing, you can make bigger savings. If you buy your sublimation ink in 500ml quantities, it'll cost around £180 - that's about 36p/ml, just over a third of the price of OEM ink.

Sublimation ink only appears to be expensive because you have to buy it in bottles of 125ml - but each bottle of 125ml contains roughly the same amount of ink as 10 cartridges from the printer manufacturer. (YMMV, of course, but the savings are clear.)

The only time that sublimation ink is hideously expensive if is you buy cartridges instead of a CISS. The ink in a cartridge is the same quantity as OEM ink. I don't know if you can still get them these days but, when I started out, the cartridges for my Epson 1290 were around £50 each - compared to the OEM price of about £20. Rather than half the price, as they are with a CISS, they worked out to over double the price.

The conclusion is clear - stay away from dye-sub cartridges, and buy CISS ink in the largest quantity you can. (Don't buy it in large quantities if you don't think you're going to use it all within about a year or so, though.)

[TonyM]

Once again JSR, many thanks for a fantasic clear answer.
I have decided to purchase 2 Epson 1400. One for photo printing and one for sub printing.
I have been looking at empty systems such as this.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/empty-ciss-cis-for-epson-1400-FOR-SUBLIMATION-INK-USE_W0QQitemZ250571010806QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Toner?hash=item3a573232f6
What do you think about buying the sytem and ink as seperates?
Where would i but the ink as a seperate?
I see that the CISS system is £270 or therabouts, whereas the empty system is less than £25 and I keep seeing inks on e-bay all the time for part used inks etc.
Would it, in your opinion be worth purcasing an empty CISS system and try sourcing the ink from somewhere else. or just get the whole package in one?
Many thanks and i really do appreciate the totally professional and concise help that you have provided.
PS what does OEM represent?

Tony

[Paul]

PS what does OEM represent?

original equipment manufacturer