Canvas printing - Printer options

[Justin]

I'm looking at buying a 44" printer, primarily for canvas printing. I've been looking at the HP DesignJet Z2100 B0+ but want to get the decision right. Does anyone have experience of this printer? Seems to offer more than anything else in this price range, the spectrophotometer for icc profiling in particular.

Only other option I can see would be Epson 9890 or 9900. Whilst both are great printers I like the idea of an HP machine right now but open to arguments both ways

Canon look great as well but price wise appear to be a lot more than the HP.

Also interested in discussing canvas material, different brand inks etc.

[daviddeer]

Depends on the kind of stuff you are printing. For the highest quality results there is only one word you need to know --- GAMUT ----.
Gamut runs in the following order low to high. HP, Kodak, Canon, Epson.
I have been printing for years with my trusty 9800 and produce Giclées which sell for up to €1500 in galleries. These are cruise scanned to produce the best image and printed on high dmax canvas. Have a chat with colourgen and/or bodoni. They have to match the original oil painting as they are sometimes hung next to them. If you want to see the quality visit the pro shops at St Andrews or Turnberry and look at Richard Chorley prints.
I spent 3 years researching printers and scanners to find the very best setup. I have visited and talked to virtually every supplier to give the artists what they desire (which is an almost impossible task).
The canvas should be matte to get the best reproduction and be able to receive roll/spray on laminating fluid.
A high quality monitor (spectraview,colouredge etc) is essential with a monitor calibrator and also spectrophotometer for substrate ICC profile production. You shouldn't need a rip. You'll need as much ram as you can get in your computer and loads of hard drive space, as files can run up to 600mb. Scans below 180 mb at 300dpi are not really good enough. Then of course there is the stretching and framing issue.
Best tip of all is not to let the artist anywhere near your studio as they can make your hair fall out faster than a squirrel shells hazelnuts!

[Justin]

Thanks for the info, all very interesting. I won't be needing to print to that kind of value though and whilst still decent quality I'll be concentrating on volume so costs will be kept lower

[The Cartridge Factory]

I have had a HP design jet z3200ps 44" for around 5 years and apart from the cutter breaking beyond repair (not even a HP engineer couldn't repair it) after 18 months, it has been a dream.

I am not as versed as david and granted I don't use it for gallery standard prints (My clientele consists mainly of the general public, some local photographers and artists and a few b2b accounts) but I have never had any complaints and often get compliments on quality.

I have only ever used OEM ink as the after market ink manufacturer (OCP) I use do not manufacture a set of ink suitable for it and I would not use any other 3rd party ink apart from OCP.

We use our z3200 for large photo prints, canvases, water resistant vinyl banners & building plans and a whole host of other media.

We also find 42" x 10" photo gloss celebration banners sell like hot cakes and we average around 5 a day, ranging from birthdays to armed forces welcome home banners.

As david said there is a knack to framing and stretcing canvasses and we outsource this to the frame shop across the precinct from us. The folding of the corners is where i came unstuck.

You can buy ready made frames (BMS stock some I believe) but this restricts the size you will be able to offer and from experience, the image the customer wants printed will hardly ever be the right ratio for the size of canvass they wish to purchase (A lot of customers bring in a hard copy 6x4 which they will want printed 16x20 for example). In this case we offer either to print as close to the desired size or to crop the image if possible.

Sorry for the wall of text but I hope it helps.

[Justin]

I'd been looking at the HP Z2100, there were offers on in April but I just missed out. now it's shot back up by £400 I might look at the Z3200 etc. I found a company selling refurbs/shop demos etc. I'd prefer new but if I get one with a decent warranty it may be worth going for the better machine.

Appreciate what you're saying about OEM inks. I've made canvasses before and yes, the corners can be tricky

I see stretcher bars on BMS site but they're 5 times more expensive than the ones we've used before. Can't see ready made frames.

[captaincyan]

We used to have an HPZ3200 (the non PS one) which produced great quality canvas, but slowly, and quite pricey. If you are like us and targeting the general public (with these sort of pretty inexpensive canvas prices) then every penny counts in the margins. Lets face it, most of our customer images aren't going to be hung in an art gallery, so you can sacrifice a little in gamut for some more speed, cheaper inks, and lower media costs.

We swapped to an HP 6200 for posters, but we actually use our HP Latex 330 for canvases. We like the fact that the Latex inks come off dry, cured properly to the canvas, which means a) no rub-off and b) no need to varnish them. Quicker to do, less labour, faster turnaround, and higher margins.

Ok, the printer wasn't cheap, but if you are planning on doing a lot the running costs are much lower than a pigment ink HP like the Z3200.

Once you get the knack, doing the corners becomes a breeze, just watch a few videos on YouTube, and have a go!

[The Cartridge Factory]

I see stretcher bars on BMS site but they're 5 times more expensive than the ones we've used before. Can't see ready made frames.

I knew they were selling some kinda frame moulding

We used to have an HPZ3200 (the non PS one) which produced great quality canvas, but slowly, and quite pricey. If you are like us and targeting the general public (with these sort of pretty inexpensive canvas prices) then every penny counts in the margins.

To be fair we make pretty good margin anyhow but more profit never hurts

We actually use our HP Latex 330 for canvases. We like the fact that the Latex inks come off dry, cured properly to the canvas, which means a) no rub-off and b) no need to varnish them. Quicker to do, less labour, faster turnaround, and higher margins

This is something I considered but after the move to our new premises we decided the money and space was better invested in sublimation and vinyl equipment and not upgrading existing equipment. But it is definately something I will revist when finances allow.

Once you get the knack, doing the corners becomes a breeze, just watch a few videos on YouTube, and have a go!

I think its one of things were the quality only comes with experience and the amount of work I get in return from the framers, it more than pays to keep the status quo. And as I'm sure you can appreciate there are not enough hours in the day as it is:mad:

[Isaac11]

What did you choose finaly ?

[Justin]

I decided to set myself up screen printing instead Lol. If I do go down the canvas route I'll get the larger Z2100 for sure but I don't think it will be just yet, if at all. Customers want the canvasses for next to nothing and the market is so saturated it's almost not worth doing them and just buying in ready made.

[Justin]

Still toying with a canvas printer, although screen carousel is taking priority I've pretty much decided on a Z2100...or similar. However, I see a few Designket 5000's for sale at a decent price and wonder if any of these 'older' style printers would come close to the Z2100 in terms of print quality? Anyone using a 5000?