Probably a stupid question about cheap ink

[rossdv8]

Someone in an earlier reply said, and I've often said in this forum, that the ink, even buyinn Sawgrass, is a minor cost per item.

I print mugs using the dye sub printer, and labels for their boxes using the pigment printer. The labels are made simply by sending the print to both printers at the same time. I get a print to use on the mug and exactly the same print to cut and put on the box.

Recently I marked the cartridges. and didn't use the printers for anything other than mugs and labels for a while. I use a colour laser for day to day printing and refill my own cartridhes, and I generally only print mugs and labels on the twin inkjets.

After 500 mugs and labels the ink level has dropped close to 1cm on the dye sub printer cartridges. It has dropped around 2.5cm on the pigment printer cartridges.

My experience will be different from other people because I run Epson inks through Brother printers, mainly because Brothers rarely seem to clog on dye sub ink, partly because I like to be different.

Even with the high cost of Sawgrass ink, compared to the price of genuine Epson pigment inks the lower usage brings the cost of using each printer pretty close.

I should add that both printers are set to print at Media 'Plain Paper' and Quality 'Plain Normal' so the pigment printer is not using more ink because it is printing at higher quality.

One mistake I used to make as a raw beginner was to try to print at high quality modes like 'high' or 'photo'. Someone on this forum pointed out that I was just wasting ink trying to do dye sub like that.

[pisquee]

For ceramics (and other hard surface items) we use our printers set at highest quality, and with media type "enhanced matt" to ensure we get the best quality we can, for textiles we use lower quality settings and a faster print mode as you can't get as fine a detail on fabrics, but we still have the same media setting to ensure we have a lot of ink layed down for transfer into the fabrics. We make different ICCs for the different things we're printing, at these settings. The transfer paper we're using copes fine with the amount of ink we're laying down, and doesn't leave much on the paper after pressing.

Although the cost of ink and paper is minimal for a mug or coaster, it does add up when you're printing metres of fabric. Also, cashflow wise, buying inks in which are around a tenth of the cost of Sawgrass has huge advantages when refilling a printer.

[rossdv8]

Interesting that you can print at such high settings and still get decent detail in photo reproduction. On standard release paper with high quality settings I was getting blurry images.

With High quality settings and High Release paper I had trouble with the paper sticking to the mugs and having to be soaked off.
With lower settings and high release paper I get dark and sharp images as you can see in the photos, and no blurring or smudging.

We all have different equipment and experiences. One of the things I have learned from reading this forum is that there's no one size fits all solution to sublimation.

But there is always someone who has experienced something similr to any problems you may have, and most have been able to suggest solutions. You just try a few and see whaty works with your gear.

[Stitch Up]

Sawgrass hold the patent /license what ever you wanna call it on small format printer inks what this means is no one in the uk (and probably worldwise) can legally produce or use sublimation inks in a small format printer by using the inks you are breaking laws and sawgrass can and do sue. As such this gives sawgrass a monopoly on inks for small format inks btw small format according to sawgrass is less than 42 inches wide. Because legally you can only use sawgrass inks sawgrass can and do charge stupid money. Its not always a case of if other ink is good or bad. For example 25ml of ink from sawgrass cost if memory serves about 60 quid from say bms but if you own a large format printer and can prove it you can byuy the exact same ink for 80quid a litre. Why ? Well its simple for small format printers sawgrass have no competition and as such can saftly charge what they like knowing you have to buy their ink but for large format they have plenty of competition which drives their price down . Hope that explains it
Brett

So much for the [h=1]Competition Act 1998[/h]http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/leg ... 3c8WfldV8E

I'm surprised petro chemical companies haven't done something similar - you can only use BP fuels in cars of less than 2litre

Makes me really annoyed when I read of these archaic laws which seem to fly in the face of what's reasonable. So much so that it brings the 'defiant side' out in me - I'll say no more.

John

[purpledragon]

couldnt agree more John

[pisquee]

Interesting that you can print at such high settings and still get decent detail in photo reproduction. On standard release paper with high quality settings I was getting blurry images. With High quality settings and High Release paper I had trouble with the paper sticking to the mugs and having to be soaked off.
With lower settings and high release paper I get dark and sharp images as you can see in the photos, and no blurring or smudging.

We're using InkTec's sublimation inks, and their sublimation papers (the two built to work with each other) although we also had very good results with Coldenhove papers, although not with TruPix which did seem more washed out/blurry.
We're also using ICC profiles that we have made for/with these print settings and on these papers, which is something that you don't use.

[rossdv8]

Thanks pisquee.

Yes, I still haven't used custom icc profiles, but I've modified the system so I can use the out of gamut display and another Epson sublimation profile with the Brother printer. Because I do photographs, not logos, I can get away with murder when it comes to actual colour., but so far all that is happening is that the photos look far better than they do in the camera, which is exactly what I want for the tourist market.

So I've been dialling the colour curves, gamma and saturation and watching the out of gamut warning, until I almost get rid of it, but still have the colours I 'want' on the screen.

Luckily with the ink/paper combination at the moment, what I get in print when I do this is close to what I see on screen and what get from the pigment printer - which allows me to also hard proof.

Not ideal, but as good as I'll get printing sublimation from Linux and now Android.
I'll look into the different paper, but there's not a lot of option in my country.

And of course, having got a generic icc profile more or less allowing me to use it, now I can think about getting a custom one made. But with the colours coming out so well now I might not mess with it until I change inks, either when I have used the current couple of litres, or when it goes past use by date, which I suspect from other posts on the forum, I should notice in my prints.

Now I just need to find a simple way to run my mug press from a solar panel..

[pisquee]

Interested in how you've got an ICC profile working in Linux - hadn't you said previously that there wasn't any Linux software that could use them?

[rossdv8]

hadn't you said previously that there wasn't any Linux software that could use them?

The general consensus was that they 'should' but don't. However, Linux and the graphics programs are constantly changing. I upgraded GIMP and I can now get an out of gamut display that didn't seem to work on previous versions. It also displays out of gamut in Inkscape (sort of like a 'budget CorelDraw').

What that allows me to do is associate an icc profile to GIMP, adjust the image until I get the colours on the screen as I want them, but have as little out of gamut showing as I can.

It doesn't allow me to assign an icc profile to a printer, but once I adjust the out of gamut warning the output is very close to what I see on the screen. The pigment printer prints pretty close to what is on the screen anyway, so other than substrate variations it is pretty well the same for everything except the laser.

Anyway, reducing the out of gamut warning (bright violet) gets rid of odd oily fog across parts of things like a nice bright sky. Makes it nice and uniform and bright. It also allows me to play with things like saturation to make photographs more 'touristy'. Get rid of grey skies, make greener trees, and still get a vibrant image.

Which I guess leaves open the opportunity to have a custom profile made.

[pisquee]

Good to hear that some Linux programs are moving in the right direction. Hopefully they'll get full colour management capabilites sooner rather than later.