Need help sourcing Sublimation Ink

[Dave Scott]

Thanks

[bms]

i have looked into sawgrass , as they supply the correct profiles, but they are just SO expensive !!

So buying cheap ink, printing and wasting blanks, time and money is somehow more cost effective? This isn't a dig at you Dave so please don't take it the wrong way, but this type of post appears quite frequently here or in conversations we have with people starting out.

[pisquee]

If they are the inks I think they are, then although in terms of cost per ml they are cheaper than Sawgrass, they are a high quality professional ink, and shouldn't be thought of as 'cheap', although needing a custom ICC profile to be used properly. Even with the added cost of getting a custom ICC profile made, they still are more cost effective than Sawgrass's own inks.

[Dave Scott]

Martin , your absolutely right , but the guy who i bought the inks from was very helpful and understanding and gave me a full refund, i tested the inks on a hi viz vest , which was the reason for getting the whole setup. so are telling me that Sawgrass is the only company selling quality sublimation inks ?

[bms]

Martin , your absolutely right , but the guy who i bought the inks from was very helpful and understanding and gave me a full refund, i tested the inks on a hi viz vest , which was the reason for getting the whole setup. so are telling me that Sawgrass is the only company selling quality sublimation inks ?

Sublimation inks for use in printers with a carriage width of 42" or less can only legally be sold by Sawgrass distributors. pisquee may argue differently, but in this market there is only one legal, licensed ink manufacturer with full support. If you're using the WP-4015 and want full back up support then Sawgrass ink is the way to go and this printer is supported with SubliJet-E inks and PowerDriver colour management software. If you use other inks then the colour management issues are for you to resolve and in the event of printer problems then this is also down to you to sort out.

Using the WP-4015 with Sawgrass inks gives you peace of mind and full back up support which extends to warranty on the printer and inks (when bought through the distributor network).

[pisquee]

Martin , your absolutely right , but the guy who i bought the inks from was very helpful and understanding and gave me a full refund, i tested the inks on a hi viz vest , which was the reason for getting the whole setup. so are telling me that Sawgrass is the only company selling quality sublimation inks ?

Sawgrass are a company selling sublimation inks. They have a patent for a formulation of sublimation ink, and then use this patent to try and stop any other companies making/selling any formulation of sublimation ink, whether or not it is a different formulation.
Other companies then persued by Sawgrass have a choice to make:
1) stop making/selling sublimation inks altogether
2) keep making and selling them, and hope they don't get taken to court
3) pay a license fee to Sawgrass to continue making/selling

Bigger companies (including big multi-nations like of Fuji and Basf, printer companies like Mimaki, and large ink producers like InkTec and J-Tec) go for option 3, which is the cheaper, easier and quicker option, compared to actually taking things through the courts.

Some of the companies licensed to make sublimation inks sell them for a good price, which works out cheaper per ml than Sawgrass own brands, but the type of license deal they normal go for with Sawgrass only permits them to sell to users with printers bigger than 42" carriage width, and in quantities in no less than 1 litre, unless it is in a cartridge specific to printer types of the size mentioned.

Obviously the inks will still work in smaller printers, and I suppose in the real world Sawgrass must know that some will slip through the net into the wrong markets, but they are still making money, whilst the majority of users will play it safe and stick with Sawgrass own brands.

[bms]

Obviously the inks will still work in smaller printers, and I suppose in the real world Sawgrass must know that some will slip through the net into the wrong markets

...and having spoken to some of the new people at Sawgrass, I know that they are going to be pursuing this much more aggressively.

[draig]

I have been in sublimation since the old 2cartridge system (Epson Stylus 850) and at that time there was only Sawgrass (had to make make sure I spelt that correctly as that is not what I call them LOL), to say the ink was a problem is an understatement, you could use a complete £90 (black) cartridge trying to get a decent nozzle check print. I seem to remember the 3colour cartridge was around £120 or so and if one of those colours ran out you had to replace the whole cartridge even if there was still some of the other colours remaining. Then I came across Rotech and the introduction of seperate cartridges using an Epson C70, those inks were simply brilliant no clogging and being able to change a used up colour one by one was a revelation. Lost the C70 to either a duff cartridge or bad build (burnt the ribbon cable out!) never really got to the bottom of it, so I then bought the relevant A4 size printer of the time an Epson C82 (which is still going strong now, and won't be changed until it dies!) During this time Sawgrass patented their product, taking out the choice of the individual, and to class Large format as over 42" was a very, very smart move by them, as a lot of Sign & Apparel shops have 36" printers at the most.

What I'm trying to get to is this
USA - Land of the Brave - those who tried to take on Sawgrass (remember TOG)
Home of the Free - but not Free Enterprise in the eyes of Sawgrass.

Sharon

[WorthDoingRight]

I always find these for and against Sawgrass threads interesting mainly because I doubt very much that any of the printer manufacturers out there have not got patents (or are trying to gain them) on their own cartridges, chips and ink formulation etc and yet we think nothing of all the aftermarket cartridges on sale.

I remember reading this a year or so back http://www.stinkyinkshop.co.uk/blog/201 ... artridges/ It is an article on Epson's attempt to make the chips on their cartridges single use to force people to have to buy original cartridges only for their printers.

If we take this to the extreme it may be only a matter of time before even Sawgrass cannot make cartridges to fit in Epson/Ricoh printers and this may force Sawgrass to actually have manufactured a 'dedicated' sublimation printer for their ink cartridges.

All we can say is whatever advances occur it is unlikely to benefit us as end users in cost terms.

[socialgiraffe]

I don't understand this.

Sawgrass have the patent/license on the ink, end of story I would presume. Any other dye sub ink is essentially breaking the law presumably.

Yes the inks are expensive but inks are expensive whether they are dye sub or not. Plus I do not understand that if you look at the cost per sheet then its peanuts. Trying to save money by halving the peanut but risking potential problems in my opinion is madness. I have seen time and time again on here problems with unsupported inks (or printers). The post often says "Help, I have just wasted a load of XXX" Normally the problem is the ink and as Martin says, wasting blanks and time surely can not be cost effective.

As a good example look to Craig on here. He looked at this forum, asked questions and went and purchased a Ricoh Printer and Sawgrass inks. he has not wasted a load of blanks but instead is looking to expand his product lines by asking about Cookie Jars and the like. This must be the way forward for anyone. Instead of trying to save 20p on an A4 sheet, put your price up by 20p or reduce your profit by that amount. If you can not justify the additional cost then perhaps the business plan is wrong.

There is no point in getting angry with Sawgrass, if I had spent the time and effort and money that they have in perfecting the printing process of dye sublimation I would want to protect it also. I too go back years with dye sub and can remember having to purchase well over 2000 mugs to get 1000 out. Now if a customer orders 2000 mugs I only purchase 2000 mugs becuase I buy good ink and good mugs and I do not get failures. I also remember having to have a stack of epson printers on the shelf because print heads clogged and it was easier and cheaper to throw them away after each job than try and solve the issue. That in my opinion is reason enough to spend the money with Sawgrass.

For those who have perfected the art of dye sub and are using different inks, congratulations and good on you. But surely as a forum we should be looking more at sourcing different types of blanks or looking at the future of dye sub instead of moaning about Sawgrass who have made the job so much easier?