Buying inks.

[Dave271069]

Hi, as a newbie, and being nome the wiser. Is talking about cheap sublimation inks a big no no on Here? What I mean, other than sawgrass. Is it illegal to use? Buy? Mention?
Can I buy say inks from USA or other country and bring them in? Sorry if I've offended but I don't understand why the cost is so dear when you can buy half the price else where.

[Justin]

Sawgrass own a patent which covers small format printing which basically means you shouldn't be using any Sublimation inks other than those on the approved list, Artainium and so on.Many companies have challenged this patent over the years but to cut a long story short they've failed.This means that we can't discuss any inks outside of this patent I'm afraid.All I would say personally having been dye subb'ing for many years is that although the initial purchase price of inks appears high compare it to oem Epson ink per ml. The cost per print is still very low allowing a very healthy profit to be made

[bigj2552]

@dave - talk to martin @ BMS - he might give you a good deal for your first ink purchase from them - if your a DSF forum member
He is VERY helpful & WILL try his best.
I asked the same thing when i joined this forum - as no dought others have done to.

and.....

what you do OFF the forum - aint nobodys business anyway bud - happy hunting

[JSR]

although the initial purchase price of inks appears high compare it to oem Epson ink per ml.

Epson OEM ink is typically £1/ml (£10 per cartridge of 10ml). Sawgrass Artanium ink is typically 50p/ml (£60 per 125ml). So dye-sub ink, even at its most expensive, is still half the price of Epson OEM ink. The only hurdle is that Sawgrass require us to buy a good chunk of it right off the bat - almost as though they know that many people will give up early on, so they want to get as much money out of them first before they do so.

[Justin]

That's the point I was making.

[JSR]

Still makes you wonder how non-Sawgrass entities can sell the ink for a tenth of that which Sawgrass charge. At least with OEM ink you can be reasonably sure that a good chunk of the high price is ploughed back into R&D for future improvement on printers and inksets. What do Sawgrass do with their vast chunk of change? They certainly don't so something sensible with it like... oh, I don't know.... commission a printer that's actually suited to their inks. That'd be far too useful.

[pisquee]

Sawgrass own a patent which covers small format printing which basically means you shouldn't be using any Sublimation inks other than those on the approved list, Artainium and so on.Many companies have challenged this patent over the years but to cut a long story short they've failed.

There is nothing in the Sawgrass patent that mentions size of printer. Legal battles have been fought in the past, and all settled out of court. The scope of Sawgrass' patent actually covers an ink which is designed in its formulation to be protected from clogging and from sublimating in the print head of printers which use heat (i.e. like Canon's bubblejet.) As Epson's do not use heat in the print head, sublimation ink formulated for Epson printers do not need this protection.

So, Sawgrass do have a patent, but it is for a formulation of ink for use non piezo (Epson) printers, and yet, Sawgrass doesn't currently have inks that are for use in bubble-jet type printers. So, they aren't actually using their patent for what it is. They practically bully people/companies by saying we have a patent so do what we say, when in fact their patent has no real baring on using Epson's printers with sublimation ink.

On the legal side of things, it's a lot cheaper to settle out of court, or not go to court in the first place, or to pay Sawgrass a "license" to make sublimation ink to agree to them not taking you to court. Other companies know that Sawgrass' patent isn't what they say it is, but they pay the protection racket "license" as it is easier and cheaper than going to court.

[Dave271069]

So I'm guessing by reading the above, your all not going to admit where you purchase your inks from then?
id better not put a picture of a bottle I saw today then and I wanted to know if it was any good, from the Philippines I think. Oh well better get back to my mugs and my SAWGRASS inks then :rolleyes:

[JSR]

So I'm guessing by reading the above, your all not going to admit where you purchase your inks from then?
id better not put a picture of a bottle I saw today then and I wanted to know if it was any good, from the Philippines I think. Oh well better get back to my mugs and my SAWGRASS inks then :rolleyes:

Discussing sellers of non-Sawgrass inks on an open forum is the quickest way to put Sawgrass on their case and have them shut down so that nobody can use them.

Also, I don't think we'd be doing forum owner Justin any favours if we got Sawgrass's back up by discussing unlicensed ink all over the place.

The only thing anyone can really say is "Sawgrass hold the patent for dye-sublimation ink in desktop printers and are the only authorised source of dye-sublimation ink for those printers. If Sawgrass don't support the printer, then they don't support the printer."

What you discuss in private emails and PMs is entirely your own affair.

[Dave271069]

Thanks, next question (I'm still learning) what's is OEM ink? As in Epson OEM ink?