Diamond Jubilee

[easiprint]

Hope someone can help. I've just had a firm enquiry for 200 mugs printed for a local school to commemorate the Diamond Jubilee. I've done the proof using the official logo - this one

[ATTACH=CONFIG]944[/ATTACH]

but they have come back and said they do not want this one, they want the one below:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]943[/ATTACH]

I've read the official guidelines on this, and I think we can use it on mugs, but not 100% sure - can someone clarify? Also, if we can use it, does anyone know where I can get it from. A 200 mug order would be nice so I don't want to lose it, but likewise I want to stay within the law and the fact that I cannot find it anywhere leads me to believe we cannot use it?! I want to get my facts right before I make myself look a pillock by getting it wrong with the customer!

Many thanks

Simon

[John G]

Think the bottom one would be copyright, as it has a crest and queens photo - top was one drawn by a school kid and won the competition to be used as the official logo, it can be used for free for certain things.

Ask them why they don't want to use the official one? and maybe ask them to supply the one they want as a high res file.

[easiprint]

Thanks John, that's kind of what I thought, but this is for my local school and want to be 100% right before I tell them I can only do the one they don't want. They want to sell these in the village and they think the bottom one will appeal to the older folk of the village more than the official one. There are several of the bigger mug printers using the bottom one, so is it possible they have a licence to use this?

Re: your suggestion of them supplying a hi res file - we know the chances of them being able to do this are slim, but if the manage this somehow, what would be the legal implications of us printing this if it is copyright. We have the standard clause in our terms that it is down to the customer to ensure images supplied are copyright free, but would this cover us?

[JSR]

We have the standard clause in our terms that it is down to the customer to ensure images supplied are copyright free, but would this cover us?

My understanding is that this would not cover you at all. Copyright is a "right to copy". You're the one doing the copying, not your customer. If you don't have the right to copy and you copy, you are liable for copyright infringement. That's all there is to it.

If you copy something that could in all reason be expected to be owned by the customer (such as a holiday snap) and it turns out not to be, that clause in your T&C may help mitigate you (but it may not, so you shouldn't rely on it), but anything that could reasonably be expected to be copyright protected (such as the Diamond Jubilee) would not be mitigated by such a clause.

If you're in any doubt, you should seek legal advice before printing even one item.

[easiprint]

Thank you. This is ooo so difficult!!!! I've been put in a position as this customer is a long standing customer of mine who is one of those you do not want to mess with as they have fingers in many pies, and have brought us many good customers. The Royals have relaxed the copyright laws on some of their images as detailed here:

http://www.royal.gov.uk/pdf/Souvenirs/Souvenir%20Guidelines.pdf

To quote from this:

"The Queen has been pleased to approve that the rules governing the
commercial use of Royal Photographs and Insignia may be temporarily relaxed to
allow the use, on souvenirs of Her Majesty’s Diamond Jubilee, devices as detailed in
paragraph 1."

"Devices
The Devices involved are:-
(a) The Royal Arms or component parts, i.e., the Supporters or the Crown, etc.
(b) The Arms of The Duke of Edinburgh or component parts thereof.
(c) The Queen’s Cypher.
(d) The Duke of Edinburgh’s Cypher.
(e) Approved photographs of The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh"

So does this mean that the we can legally use the coat of arms for the Diamond Jubilee period thanks to the temporary relaxing of the copyright?

[smitch6]

give Her a ring and ask her lol (sorry )

[easiprint]

give Her a ring and ask her lol (sorry )

Apparently she is walking some corgi's at the moment, maybe I'll try later

[smitch6]

lol if She's ay sandringham thats not far from me i could pop up and see HRH

[JSR]

Thank you. This is ooo so difficult!!!! I've been put in a position as this customer is a long standing customer of mine who is one of those you do not want to mess with as they have fingers in many pies, and have brought us many good customers. The Royals have relaxed the copyright laws on some of their images as detailed here:

http://www.royal.gov.uk/pdf/Souvenirs/Souvenir%20Guidelines.pdf

To quote from this:

"The Queen has been pleased to approve that the rules governing the
commercial use of Royal Photographs and Insignia may be temporarily relaxed to
allow the use, on souvenirs of Her Majesty’s Diamond Jubilee, devices as detailed in
paragraph 1."

"Devices
The Devices involved are:-
(a) The Royal Arms or component parts, i.e., the Supporters or the Crown, etc.
(b) The Arms of The Duke of Edinburgh or component parts thereof.
(c) The Queen’s Cypher.
(d) The Duke of Edinburgh’s Cypher.
(e) Approved photographs of The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh"

So does this mean that the we can legally use the coat of arms for the Diamond Jubilee period thanks to the temporary relaxing of the copyright?

I don't know, I think you need to read further, re:

The Royal Symbols that may be used on containers or receptacles are limited
to:-
(e) The use of any of the Royal Arms or the Royal Cyphers is specifically disallowed except to holders of the Royal Appointment as Tradesmen. Nos. 10, 11 and 12 of the Royal Warrant Rules will apply in these cases.

Doesn't the design that your customer wants printed include the Royal Arms? Unless you're a holder of the Royal Appointment, then you can't do it.

In addition, re:

Souvenirs, subject to the limitations in paragraphs 3, 4, 5 and 6 are defined as articles of a permanent kind specifically designed to commemorate The Queen’s Diamond Jubilee and identified with the occasion by the incorporation of a phrase such as:-
“The Queen’s Diamond Jubilee 2012”
“The Queen’s Diamond Jubilee 1952 - 2012”

The design that your customer wants does not include the incorporation of any phrase similar to the above to indicate that these mugs are specifically designed to commemorate The Queen's Diamond Jubilee.

In short, the official design (your first image) is probably fine, but the one your customer wants is not - even under this year's "relaxation". But I'm not a legal bod. You should probably ask someone who is.

If you're not allowed to do it, don't be afraid of telling your customer that you can't do it. I had a request from a returning customer recently to print a bunch of mugs with a humorous phrase to do with a business meeting during the Olympics. I didn't want to turn them down because it was a good order, but I knew that the Olympic rules are extraordinary strict. I explained to the customer that we can't do it without first seeking permission to do so. I thought that would be it (that I'd lost the order, or that they might go to someone who's less conscientious), but it wasn't. They came back with a different design that didn't have anything to do with the Olympics. They did understand.

Your customer may also understand. They may appreciate that you're doing the right thing. If you project the image of someone who will not infringe someone else's copyright, your customer knows that their design is safe with you because they'll know that you won't print their design for someone else. Reputation is the toughest thing to build, but the easiest thing to destroy.

[John G]

If they are in charge of ordering for a school, they'll fully understand the complexities of copyright - they'll also know which image is free to use. I doubt a school would want to get into trouble with copyright when there is a total free to use image available.

I'd just tell him which one is available and that if they did use the other one, they'd be doing it illegally which might land the school (and the printer) in all sorts of trouble.

Cheers John