Different types of Inks.

[proprints]

OK, I'm a newbie to this type of printing - I'll get that over and done with before I start.

I've spent litterly all day trawling through the net trying to find a decent printer that has a good supply of cost effective inks available. But as soon as i see a printer I find a different terminology for inks. So the first question is

1. Is "Sublimation" a terminology or a brand. I have seen Sublimination, Durabite and Pigmented heat transfer inks, some more expensive than others. Initially I just want to print Mugs and possibly place mats.
2. Can anyone recommend an half decent printer to get started (and the type of ink to use). I dont really want to spend more than a couple of hundred quid on the printer.

Thanks in advance
Steve

[JSR]

Dye Sublimation is the process, not the brand. Artanium is a brand of dye-sublimation inks. Durabrite and Ultrachrome are brands of pigment inks. Claria is a brand of dye ink.

A Dye Sublimation printer can be either an inkjet printer which prints using special third-party inks, or a special photo printer that uses the technology to print photos to paper. Do not confuse one with the other.

We use inkjet printers with dye-sublimation inks (such as Artainium from ink manufacturer Sawgrass). There is *no* printer that has been designed to use dye-sublimation inks for our purposes. We are always going to be using a printer that's been designed for either dye or pigment inks with these third-party dye-sublimation inks. If something goes wrong with the process, the printer manufacturer is unlikely to help because he didn't design the printer for those inks. Nine times out of ten, though, the process works fine.

The sublimation process occurs when heat is applied to a paper print that's attached to a receptive surface (like polyester fabric or a polymer coated mug). If heat is applied before this stage, you've ruined your print. For this reason, you must use a printer that does not use heat as a way to get the ink onto the paper.

There are ostensibly two types of inkjet printer - bubblejet and micro-piezo. The terms refer to how the ink is placed on the paper. Bubblejet printers use heat to expand an air bubble in the printhead to squirt the ink onto the paper. Piezo printheads use electricity to manipulate crystals to fire ink onto the paper. You can't use dye-sublimation inks in a bubblejet type printer (such as Canon, HP, Lexmark, etc), but you can use dye-sublimation inks in a piezo inkjet printer (such as Epson, Ricoh, Brother, etc).

Due to the fact that we're using printers that were not designed for the ink, you can't just fill them up with dye-sublimation inks and get the best result. Printer drivers come with colour-correction profiles designed for the ink/paper combination that you would normally print. If you change the ink, those colour-correction profiles will no longer be accurate and you can expect the print to exhibit strange colours. To correct this, you need a colour-correction profile designed for your printer and your ink (sometimes a different profile for different substrates is also required for best results).

You can buy a set-up from an authorised reseller of Sawgrass inks. In this instance you are restricted to a very small selection of printers and you have to buy the ink that's supplied by Sawgrass, but the set-up will come supplied with a colour correction profile for that printer and ink combination which will produce results that are usually "good enough". In the case of Ricoh printers, this colour correction profile is known as the "PowerDriver" software which apparently makes things a whole lot easier.

Alternatively, you can use whatever suitable printer (with piezo printhead) you desire but you'll need to get a colour correction profile made for you. You can either get a third party to create this profile (usually around £25) or you can buy a device to make your own profile (typically £300+). This is likely to produce the most accurate results because you can create the profile exactly to your specific printer, ink, and substrate - but it is more complicated than just buying an "approved" system. The choice is yours.

As to which printer and ink to use, the choice comes down to which option you wish to go for. The easiest and most straightforward setup, but not the cheapest, is to buy from an "approved reseller" of Sawgrass. Everything you want will be in the box, and they'll be able to talk you through it. The more complicated and hands-on method allows you to pick and choose what you feel is best for your business. However, it should be stressed that talk of unapproved/unauthorised dye-sublimation inks is strongly discouraged here so you won't get a lot of reply if you ask for suppliers of such ink. That's not to say that some people don't use those inks, just that they are unauthorised and any source will ultimately be shut down when Sawgrass find out about them.

I hope these few brief notes help you out.

Happy subbing!

[Justin]

Hi Steve,

Sublimation is the printing process itself....."Sublimation is the process of transition of a substance from the solid phase to the gas phase without passing through an intermediate liquid phase"

If it's mugs, mouse mats etc. you want to print then you'll need Sublimation inks, the other you've mentioned could be used for transfers etc. but not sublimation. Artainium, Rotec, Subli-Jet are some of the names you'll hear talked about....http://www.sawgrasseurope.com/consumer-division/sublimation

You basically have 3 choices. Epson printers with Artainium ink (generally) Rotech Printers with Subli-JetR inks or third party inks through a variety of (mainly) Epson printers. This isn't an exhaustive list but simplifies things somewhat for you. Third party inks and non supported printers are available but as such are not recognised under the Sawgrass small printer patent and cannot be officially sold for Sublimation in the UK. Whilst this is an option, you're on your own pretty much in terms of support and we can't help you here on the DSF should problems arise.

So you're left with 2 options. Ricoh is rapidly becoming the weapon of choice for many new starters due to it's simplicity and generally the Ricohs don't tend to clog if not used for a period of time. These use gel inks called Subli-JetR. Epson is the traditional choice still favoured by many (hated by others) Artainium is probably the most popular ink.

You will find prices and details of the range available through Suppliers detailed on this forum, either through the banner ads or the Suppliers list under the General Dye Sub section.

You're budget won't get you far if you start to factor in a heat press/mug press. The inks will appear to be very expensive but will last a long time so the cost per print is low, far lower than printing with genuine Epson inks by comparison.

I personally favour the Epsons but would seriously advise looking at the Ricoh as a new start-up option due to the simplicity and likelihood of less problems.

[proprints]

Thanks for the info, I think both posts just confirmed the information overload I have downloaded over the last 24hrs LOL.

I think the Ricoh will be the printer I go for, mainly because it is a startup business and if I dont constantly print I dont want the ink drying up. I now of the problem of deciding A4 or A3!!!

Which leads me to a couple of questions about the Ricoh.

1. I heard that the A3 Ricoh (GX7700) is being discontinued, is that correct because for some reason i thought it had just come out.
2. Ive forgotton what the second question was LOL

Thanks
Steve

[proprints]

Just rembered the second qusition.

Is the Ricoh just a sublimation printer, by that i mean the inks that are supplied (and also sold of Ebay as GEL inks), are those the Inks i will need for it.

Thanks
Steve

[gorgall2]

No you will have to buy the sublimation ink separately.

[JSR]

I think the Ricoh will be the printer I go for, mainly because it is a startup business and if I dont constantly print I dont want the ink drying up. I now of the problem of deciding A4 or A3!!!

Which leads me to a couple of questions about the Ricoh.

Is the Ricoh just a sublimation printer, by that i mean the inks that are supplied (and also sold of Ebay as GEL inks), are those the Inks i will need for it.

There are pros and cons with both popular brands of printers. Some people have nozzle-block issues with Epsons, others don't. Some people have mainboard failures with Ricoh, others don't.

These are all things to consider when using a printer that wasn't designed for the ink.

One advantage Epson printers have over Ricoh is that you can buy CISS or refillable carts for Epson and, thus, put in any ink you like. With Ricoh, you must buy the special cartridges with the dye-sub ink in them. This added flexibility of the Epson printers is what contributes to the higher likelihood of blockages (most are not blockages, they're trapped air bubbles, but that's a discussion for another time).

If you google for Ricoh printers and "mainboard failure", you'll find that some people have had this issue and Ricoh won't help out. Even though the ink isn't responsible for the problem, Ricoh leave you with an unusable printer - a pretty tough call if you've spent £500+.

There is an unwritten/unspoken/whispered-behind-closed-doors suggestion that Sawgrass (the manufacturer of the approved inks) might help you out if your Ricoh goes wrong and Ricoh don't want to know - but only if you buy your printer from an approved/authorised reseller. Buying the printer from Amazon and your inks from an approved reseller is no good - you have to buy all from the authorised reseller. That said, if your printer fails outside the first year, you're lumbered anyway. And Sawgrass don't go out of their way to let anyone know of this "support" (you won't find it on their website), so you may not get that support at all.

Ultimately, we're putting a third-party ink into a printer that it's not designed for and anything that goes wrong is on our own shoulders. It's up to us how we deal with that.

I don't want to come across all negative and it's important to note that many people have success with both types of printer setup (Epson and Ricoh), but it's also important to remain realistic. We're doing what the printer manufacturer did not design their printer to do - that's our choice, it's also our responsibility.

In an ideal world, the company that makes a fortune from the expensive ink would commission a couple of printers designed for the ink and then support us properly. But that hasn't happened in the last 15 years, and there's no chance of it happening any time soon.

[Scotty@BMS]

Thanks for the info, I think both posts just confirmed the information overload I have downloaded over the last 24hrs LOL.

I think the Ricoh will be the printer I go for, mainly because it is a startup business and if I dont constantly print I dont want the ink drying up. I now of the problem of deciding A4 or A3!!!

Which leads me to a couple of questions about the Ricoh.

1. I heard that the A3 Ricoh (GX7700) is being discontinued, is that correct because for some reason i thought it had just come out.
2. Ive forgotton what the second question was LOL

Thanks
Steve

Hi Steve, in answer to your two questions:-

1) Its actually the GX7000 that's been discontinued, the GX7700 is the brand new bells and whistles replacement. But considering the cost and the fact you're looking to do mugs and placemats, I'd think hard about the outlay on an A3 Ricoh.

2) Sublimation inks are provided with the Ricoh when purchased from sublimation suppliers, such as ourselves

[Ian Mc]

JSR - Absolutely spot on, sir. I've never seen the issue of printers and support so succinctly laid out.

[Shutz]

In an ideal world, the company that makes a fortune from the expensive ink would commission a couple of printers designed for the ink and then support us properly. But that hasn't happened in the last 15 years, and there's no chance of it happening any time soon.

I see a business opportunity here!!