I might 'sack' this and go into cakes!

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Stitch Up
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Re: I might 'sack' this and go into cakes!

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TPM;25655 wrote:.....ok, so Ive asked this before.....if all this stuff is subject to copyright law, how come sooooo many people are doing it, making a living and not getting 'caught'? You would think it would be really easy for an investigator to sit and browse ebay or the local market and find a constant supply of illegal products?
Probably because as with any public sector department, they've been reduced to a minimum and therefore don't have the resources.

Why should the tax I pay be used to protect the profits and greed of the likes of Bernie Ecclestone's F1, The Glazier's Manchester United, Disney etc etc? If the 'rip-offs' sre funding major crime, people trafficking, terrorism, drugs, then fine.

If these greedy companies wish to protect their profits, let them do so, but don't ask me to fund that protection.
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Matt Quinn
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Re: I might 'sack' this and go into cakes!

Post by Matt Quinn »

Stitch Up;25657 wrote:Probably because as with any public sector department, they've been reduced to a minimum and therefore don't have the resources.

Why should the tax I pay be used to protect the profits and greed of the likes of Bernie Ecclestone's F1, The Glazier's Manchester United, Disney etc etc? If the 'rip-offs' sre funding major crime, people trafficking, terrorism, drugs, then fine.

If these greedy companies wish to protect their profits, let them do so, but don't ask me to fund that protection.
- You're not particularly asked to protect the profits of these big companies... The Police, Trading Standards and Customs & Excise do have legal powers they can use in terms of coounterfeit goods. And in that respect they act in the interests of the public which includes those who might unknowingly purchase counterfeit goods; and traders who work legitimately, over whom counterfeiters might gain a price advantage. - The point being that counterfeiters operate at the expense of the legitimate economy.

The actual breach of copyright is a civil matter between the copyright owner and the counterfeitter. Government agencies will almost-certainly alert the rights owners if they discover a breach in the course of other investigations; but it's up to the owner to pursue the civil copyright side of the issue.
TPM wrote:
.....ok, so Ive asked this before.....if all this stuff is subject to copyright law, how come sooooo many people are doing it, making a living and not getting 'caught'? You would think it would be really easy for an investigator to sit and browse ebay or the local market and find a constant supply of illegal products?
It is, they can and they do just that... But like any crime it's a question of volume and 'clout'.

Think of it this way; if you regularly drive at night you'll know that in many parts of the country a Police car is a relatively rare site. A 'Traffic' car even rarer these days - I drive the M8 Edinburgh to Glasgow and back three times a week and clock up well over 1000 miles a week on average going all over Scotland, Cumbria and Northumberland; I honestly can't remember the last time I saw an RPU car!

People aren't routinely breath-tested or stopped in this country until they either commit an offence or give a Police Officer 'cause to suspect'. And when we DO read of individuals being prosecuted they're usually fairly spectacular cases... As a result probably 99%+ of the people who drove home over the legal alcohol limit last night got away with it... So many take the chance again, and again and again...

Now; I think most people would agree drunk driving is a pretty serious offence and see it as a priority that innocent people going about their legitimate business are protected from such offenders... And yet it's still a serious problem; one thing that would help is if the public actually reported their suspicion. In practice calls for erratic drivers or suspected drunks are relatively rare...

The point being that the resources just don't exist to track down every offender for every crime or civil breach that occurs. - Even in respect of matters that are very very serious indeed. And make no mistake; though the principals are the same,'Thomas the Tank Engine' getting shafted is way down everyone's list of priorities!

Like the drunk seen getting into their car and driving off, a 'phone call (to your local Trading Standards) is all that's needed to set the machine in motion!

On the civil side organisations like Disney, the big football clubs and film distributors do have their own teams of investigators. There are also more broad-based organisations such as FACT and commercial set ups such as Picscout who investigate copyright infringement; as this recent story from the Scottish news organisations illustrates.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-centra ... th-piracy/

Note that the investigation was carried out by FACT who merely presented evidence to the Police and Procurator Fiscal (Scottish CPS in effect) and called the Police in to make the final arrest.

Trading Standards departments have never been large; and they DO have a wide range of issues to deal with. And ,like all public services these days they suffer from the 'disease' of being statistics driven - so-called 'performance indicators'. An individual TSO may do a fine job in taking the initiative of tracking down and prosecuting an individual offender who's shop walls were lined with fake Spongebob, F1 and .M.U. goods worth thousands...

They're more likely to get a 'barracking' from their bosses though as that ONE prosecution wouldn't look as good on the books as 'taking down' half-a-dozen hawkers flogging 'sports socks' without a licence; even if the full 'haul' was less than £250! This hunger for 'P.I.s' invariably comes from politicians and pretty much corrupts every aspect of public service...

But when push comes to shove one of the main reasons these guys are getting away with undermining legitimate business is that people just don't report these things! - Not even those who are being undermined! - All part of that great British reserve apparently! - do as you would be done to - don't be a 'grass' etc, etc etc...


And yes! That Bl@@dy "Reply to Thread" button is now't but a pest!
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Stitch Up
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Re: I might 'sack' this and go into cakes!

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Matt Quinn;25658 wrote: And yes! That Bl@@dy "Reply to Thread" button is now't but a pest!
I bet you were more careful than I was after typing all that :)
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Re: I might 'sack' this and go into cakes!

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Stitch Up;25660 wrote:I bet you were more careful than I was after typing all that :)
- I was the third time ;-)
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Re: I might 'sack' this and go into cakes!

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Good reading guys :-)
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Re: I might 'sack' this and go into cakes!

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I did note that Bernie Ecclestone & F1 were mentioned & I can vouch in some way why they are so protective over the F1 trade marks & copyrights. The profits they make from the licensing of the F1 brand does go back into the sport. It pays for such things as transporting all the cars & teams around the world which Bernie Ecclestone pays for & he also pays for the equipment to broadcast the races from each circuit they visit. I know Mr Ecclestone is a very rich man but, a lot of people do fail to realise that he was a very rich man before he came into F1.

As for Disney, the music industry & the major football clubs etc they do need the money to pay for future investment such as new films, new artists/albums & other running costs.

I for one can see why they are so protective over what they own & I think if any of us were in their positions we would feel exactly the same.

Ian :biggrin:
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Re: I might 'sack' this and go into cakes!

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Interesting you mention football clubs. Many of the clubs these days operate in a totally unsustainable way, that's why so many, including my local club Cardiff City, find themselves in court facing bankruptcy at the hands of HMRC. Monies that should have been paid in tax and weren't - in most cases, it's the taxpayer and smaller local suppliers/business who lose out.
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Re: I might 'sack' this and go into cakes!

Post by phoenixalpha »

Heaven help anyone with fake 2012 goods cause they are extremely vigorous at prosecuting anyone with even the tiniest Olympic theme.
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Re: I might 'sack' this and go into cakes!

Post by Ian M »

Stitch Up;25672 wrote:Interesting you mention football clubs. Many of the clubs these days operate in a totally unsustainable way, that's why so many, including my local club Cardiff City, find themselves in court facing bankruptcy at the hands of HMRC. Monies that should have been paid in tax and weren't - in most cases, it's the taxpayer and smaller local suppliers/business who lose out.
Your right John & I shouldn't have mentioned the football clubs. It does amaze me how most of the premier league clubs are so much in debt yet my local lower league club has managed to raise the money & buy the ground they were going to loose.
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Re: I might 'sack' this and go into cakes!

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phoenixalpha;25674 wrote:Heaven help anyone with fake 2012 goods cause they are extremely vigorous at prosecuting anyone with even the tiniest Olympic theme.
I quite like the Olympic logo, it's sorta grown on me!

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