What do you think is fair?

[Paul]

btw - I think your trying to be too clever and aggressive, especially for someone in your position on the forum,

please accept my apologies if my post was aggresive. I did not mean that.

[bms]

This is probably the longest debated issue in the history of the forum thusfar (not just on this thread) and the principle at stake is who funds it and if it's not the members does it affect the impartiality of forum users.

If all members have to pay then I'm sure, as John suggests, you'll see a huge decline in active members. Several members on here post questions which could equally be answered by the original supplier of the equipment or picking up the phone and speaking to the technical department of such suppliers. Why do they post here then? Well possibly they post here AS WELL as contacting elsewhere and benefit from whoever reponds soonest or when there is a crisis.

The implication of wanting members to all pay is that the DSF remains independant and that it doesn't become a surrogate for the SubliNation forum which was funded by, moderated by and controlled by one supplier. Funding this was might prove difficult if membership reduces the number of forum members and it becomes a talking shop for a small number of members unless Justin wants to keep funding it from his pocket (which I doubt in the long term).

I keep looking at the chart above and the majority view (albeit 13 votes) is for 'someone else to foot the bill, not me' and this is translated into Sponsorship/ Advertising which doesn't sit comfortably with the Forum administrators.

Something, I think, will have to give - either suppliers/ advertising fills the void or membership becomes closed and membership is affected (similar to what Ian talks about with the classic car club).

I'm sure this topic will run and run until someone make an executive decision on how to fund it. You can't please everyone all the time...

[accdave]

Martin I would imagine in some ways this is a similar decision trade suppliers like yourself have when deciding to display open pricing or registered businesses only. Personally I would rather you didn't, as you say you can't please everybody

[Justin]

it becomes a talking shop for a small number of members unless Justin wants to keep funding it from his pocket (which I doubt in the long term)...

That is a concern yes.

I keep looking at the chart above and the majority view (albeit 13 votes) is for 'someone else to foot the bill, not me' and this is translated into Sponsorship/ Advertising which doesn't sit comfortably with the Forum administrators.

I've tried to be open and fair and always throw things out for discussion but out of 450 members only 38 bother to vote!

I'm sure this topic will run and run until someone make an executive decision on how to fund it. You can't please everyone all the time...

OK, decision for now is that I will carry on paying for it and won't be charging membership. Donations will still be greatly appreciated and I still welcome suggestions and ideas but it's obvious we won't please all members whatever happens. I take the point about experienced members giving advice to newcomers/competitors, personally I have no issue with this...friends close, enemies closer...but I can understand how some members would be concerned.

The forum isn't run as a business and at this stage I have no intention of doing so. I run it because I enjoy doing so and want to give something back to the industry. I feel that we're pushing the boundaries with members testing different printers and maybe one day our voices will be heard by those that can do something with these tests.

Not much more to say at this point, I don't think the debate needs to continue as we're going around in circles.

[AdamB]

Well, this has got some interesting reading in it I must say.

I am relativley new to the forum, but feel as though I've known everyone for a lot longer as you get to see 'personalities' come through in what they have written (well I do anyway, not sure about anyone else?).

So, after casting my vote at the start I then kind of sat back and read everything that has been posted, different opinions, arguments etc.

I also do this as a business (now) , but started off by trying it out (part-time) ................. everyone has to start somewhere (and learn).

But, my main reason for posting on this 'debate' is regarding Justin's last post .................... that he will "continue to fund it from his own pocket".

I haven't donated .............. yet, as I was waiting on the outcome of this subject - but I know 100% that I WILL DONATE now, whether it's the odd fiver here when I get some cash in or a couple of quid ................. I wouldn't have it if it wasn't for this forum - and for now, it's paid for by HIM not us, so it's an effort I can make and will be happy to do so!

................ now, where's that donate button?

[jennywren]

My daughter ran a forum, army wife's something like like and it was funded through selling mugs , embroider shirts, etc and it seem to tick. But no doubt it will contravene some bloody rule or other, there is no right answer, but one that has to be decide by you and you alone as its your baby. I suspect like most people we like the forum but have no or a small idea of the politics that go with the responsibility of running a forum, or the rules that allow or don't you allow to charge for various things, I don't think its not a lack of not interested in, or which way we want it to go, simply we don't understand the nitty gritty of what is required and how to go about suggest things. I believe that many members would like to suggest things but are afraid their ideas are not good enough or know how to put in to words. Or we leave it to those you feel strong opinions about it to decide. But either way its the person that who owns it has the final word and who knows which way he would like it to go, Maybe now is the time to do what ever you feel needs doing, What ever you do is fine by me and those members that feel this way can add their post which agrees. Not everybody wants to have a heavy debate but would back you on whatever you decide. I believe most members do .

[mrs maggot]

i would happily pay (and have) £5 per year for the services of the forum, I would like to see an area for people who do this as their main business - not as a hobby to pay the extra bills, i am really not enjoying seeing the "begging bowl" out at the top of the forum every month, surely by now we need you show us what your costs are for the year, hosting and running the forum. then i would have an idea if my £5 was enough. i know what my hosting fees and domain name fees are, but yours maybe different.

Yes i would like to see a seperate area, one for members, but i would like that to also be for professional members who do this for a paid living (ie fill out a tax form every year) so we are not helping some of those who are taking the work from us - but i know thats a debate for another time

[smitch6]

i'm trying to do this for a living lol
but so far its not quite going that way
i suppose once i get the help from you guys on here it will improve

i would happily pay for the use of this place

but i can also see it from other views
i run a free forum and my aim was always to have it free
i ask for donations and i bet my costs are prob more than this place but thats by choice

for the 1st 18months i had to pay for everything myself
but in the last 6mths or so the forum has paid for itself and started earning me around £20 a month

i think maybe have it free for anyone to join but have a premium section as well for those who want to pay for the privilige

i suppose thats where the problems start tho
as some ppl only want to help ppl who do it as a living not a hobby
which is fine, but how many ppl turn their hobby into a business????????? lots

i'm happy to help out in any way i can which is what i have found from everyone on here so far

[DREAMGLASS]

When I first got into sublimation, I was self taught by watching YouTube videos, reading non forum articles and reading technical guidelines on suppliers pages. The missing gaps I learnt from experimentation on my own initiative and learning from mistakes.

A lot of people come onto this forum and expect every question to be answered for them, without even being bothered to look for the solution themselves first. That's not a personal attack on anybody, just a critique on how this forum is evolving. Some of those folks have the ethos of I'll go out and buy the equipment and be totally dependant on other people to show my how to set it all up so I can set up in possible competition against the very people that are helping me. In that context I can see where John G and others are coming from.

At the other end of the scale, it may be that some folks are only running their ventures part time with a view to eventually developing a full time business, likewise there are also 'beer money' folks that don't want to commit to sublimation other than for casual income, for a whole variety of legitimate reasons, such as health, mobility and other commitments. Let's face it, if folks are say only doing mugs, an a4 printer and a mug press are going to fit onto even the smallest kitchen table, so absolutely no need for commercial premises. As to undercutting on prices, some folks have little business sense and whether they run a full time professional business, or operate on a casual part time basis, if they want to work for minimal profit, then I for one am happy to leave them to it.

Some people come into sublimation expecting to make an easy fortune, but there are other ventures that will make you a lot more money than printing up tees and mugs ever will.

[Ian M]

I have to agree all the way with Dreamglass as I started just the same way by being self taught etc.

I like so many others will always try to help someone who is having problems etc but, there have been a couple of people on here who can't be bothered to reply to your PM even just to say thank you. Straight away you know they are only here just to find out certain things & off they go never to be seen again.

I think after a little time on here we all get to know who are the regulars & it doesn't take long to realise who are the ones who just use us for their own gain.

Ian