Wraps OR MugPress?

[Flash]

Hi again Guy's,
I hope this is in the correct section, please feel free to move if not.

As you may have read from the 'New Members Intoduction' section, i'm just considering starting out in Dye Sublimation, mainly interested in mugs to start with.
I see I have two options in printing my mugs 1) A mug Press 2) Wraps in a conventional oven
It appears from early research that it takes longer to bake the mugs in an oven than it does to print the mugs in a Mug Press.
Does this have an effect on the print finish?
Cooling the mug after printing, is this best done by dunking the mug in a cold bucket of water or cooling with a desk fan (which I have read somewhere)?

I did warn you there were questions coming, i've only just begun

Phil

[AJLA]

I slowly dunk in room temp water.

Re oven or press, I have both.

I recently supllied a large no of mugs to my local council which paid for the oven with a nice bit extra.

I suppose it depends on what you are going to do, if you run up batches at a time then oven as you can pop them in and wander off for up to 12 mins and busy yourself with something else.....tea,coffee,beer

If you are going to be accepting one offs from your customers then I would say press.

I have what I though was a very good press but it is actually rubbish as I can not get anywhere near the handles.

If i had a few pennies I would get the BMS one advertised on here. It's good value and I would much rather get one with a bit of back up. As you will no doubt see from this forum they give plenty of support to people.
No i'm not on commission either
Good luck with it!!!!

[JSR]

Press vs Oven is a personal choice.

I have both. I get better results from the oven because the whole mug is heated equally (even if it does take a long time in my oven and they need turning over half-way through).

I've tried a couple of cheap mug presses and, really, they suffer from not getting heat to the edge of the heat blankets. This is noticeable when trying to cover a large area (getting near to the mug edges), but less noticeable if you're just doing simple designs.

Whether a more expensive mug press would be different I don't know because I'm not in the position to fork out £600+ just to find out.

A short while ago I did a 150 mug order in my cheap mug press much more quickly than I would have done them in the mug oven. Just this week I did a 50 order but had to do them in the mug oven because the heat blanket in the press wouldn't get heat far enough from the middle of the blanket.

Personally, I would prefer a good mug press - because you don't need to put gloves on to handle the mugs and there's no fiddling about with wraps. But, needs must.... as they say.

In short, both options work. It's up to you to decide which you prefer (or get both!). The oven method won't fail you but, depending on the oven, it may take longer. (AJLA quotes a time of 12mins but 12mins won't even start to sublimate in my oven and I need twice that time at least, while the mug press takes 3-4mins at most.)

An oven will also let you do oddball sizes of mugs (like Latte mugs and steins) which may prove to be an issue in a regular mug press.

Re: Cooling

I use a desk fan. I stopped dunking when the original (and best) supplier of mugs (TAMS) disappeared. If you dunk a mug and it pings, you could be in trouble. It pings because the mug can't handle the stress of the shock change in temperature (TAMS ones could).

[Paul]

hi Phil. As I said earlier... I would go for press. if you r looking for cheap start up then press advertises by BMS is fantastic first press and will last!
100% recomended as I own one like this.
also you can get hold of few wraps and use them in your oven. but if you have only kitchen oven there is long preheating time longer mug baking etc... so it realy cost you more. one mug wrap cost about £30. but again. as AJLA siad... if you want to do biger runs go for wraps and oven. if not. go for a press.

my 3p

[Flash]

Thanks guy's your incredible! With this kind of help i'm sure I will be printing mugs in no time!
What happens if the mug is left to cool naturally, does the image/text 'bleed'?
I have seen 'Halogen' ovens on th market. They almost look like a cassarole bowl but I believe they heat very quickly from above, do these work?
A conventional oven and wraps takes longer than a mug press as mentioned above does this have a detramental effect on the resulting print? I understand that a wrap in a conventional oven takes longer as you also need to heat the wrap as well as the mug.
What temperature do you need to achieve for sublimation to work and how long does your mug need to be held at this temperature?

Phil

[JSR]

if you want to do biger runs go for wraps and oven. if not. go for a press.

I guess it depends what you call a bigger run. My biggest run was the 150 order and I would not have wanted to do them in the oven and messing about with wraps. It was a big enough pain doing the 50 order in the mug oven this last week (I wish I had a decent enough press to do them in). But it is all down to personal preference.

[JSR]

What happens if the mug is left to cool naturally, does the image/text 'bleed'?

This depends on several things - temperature, size of mug, and how you're pressing. If I press a heavy 15oz El Grande in my mug oven and leave it standing, the ink does bleed ("migrate" would be a better word). The large size of the mug takes a long time to cool down and, having been pressed in the oven, the entirety of the mug is heated to temperature.

If, however, I'm doing a smaller 10oz mug in my mug press then the chances of ink migration is less. To start with, only the outside of the mug is heated to temperature (the inside of the mug is cooler and the handle is cool enough to touch). Being much lighter than the heavier mugs and not being 100% heated means that it cools down that much quicker. Just to be safe, I still go with the desk fan method (and I always use the desk fan if I've used the mug oven).

I have seen 'Halogen' ovens on th market. They almost look like a cassarole bowl but I believe they heat very quickly from above, do these work?

I have the JML version and it seems to take much longer to press than everyone else's. I can't get anywhere near the 12mins indicated by others - but if I press for about twice that long, I get a very decent print. You may like to ask the make & model of everyone else's to see who has the quickest model.

A conventional oven and wraps takes longer than a mug press as mentioned above does this have a detramental effect on the resulting print? I understand that a wrap in a conventional oven takes longer as you also need to heat the wrap as well as the mug.

You can get an excellent print from a conventional oven if you keep an eye on it. Before getting my JML one, I "borrowed" our small work-surface electric combi-oven in the kitchen (sadly it's no longer with us). Time and temp wasn't much different to my JML oven (maybe a little longer) but the prints were fine.

What temperature do you need to achieve for sublimation to work and how long does your mug need to be held at this temperature?

How long depends on (i) which oven, (ii) size of mug, (iii) size of wrap (if used). As mentioned before, using desktop ovens and wraps, AJLA can do a print in 12mins at 200C - but I tried 12mins at 210C and the print had barely even begun to sublimate.

The temperature of sublimation is generally considered to be around 180C-200C. Inks sublimate at slightly different temperatures - I believe they begin between 140-160C (I'm fairly sure I read somewhere that one of them - maybe cyan - starts at the cooler temperature). 180C-200C is a good ballpark for RN-coated mugs.

You're going to find that these early days will consist of some trial and error, so I'd recommend you get set up with a box of regular white mugs (of the type you intend to do) and have a play about with times and temps for a couple of weeks. Nothing beats experience. Use the Christmas period to test "Christmas" mugs that you can give away to family and friends (ones who won't care if you got the colour wrong! ) You learn while they get unexpected extra Christmas presents! 8)

[AJLA]

Mine is a little halogen one which I paid the earth for from a subli supplier Derrrr! Mind you it did come with the clamps and a box of free mugs for the purpose of testing and I have to say a lot of them were used too. We had many uder cooked , over cooked and scorced you name it we had it but got there in the end. As Jsr says the wraps can be fiddly but there is a knack to them like everything I suppose.
It would be interesting to cook something other than a mug in it, apparently you can cook a roast in it!

[JSR]

It would be interesting to cook something other than a mug in it, apparently you can cook a roast in it!

After getting my JML one, we did get one for the kitchen and we do cook many of our dinners in it.

I've said that if my mug oven breaks down, I'm nicking the one from the kitchen!

[AJLA]

Thats interesting, I have a huge oven at home which was in my house when I bought it, very showy thing, it looks great but takes twice as long to get up to temp than it takes to cook anything. A complete waste of electric for one person.
Must give it a go. Does it cook faster or will it take about the same time?