Screen printing copywrite images or text

[Quinsfan]

I'm enjoying the debate and I can see both sides, but how about we find out for sure. If we can spare the time, how about contacting our local Trading Standards and ask them; when is it a printing service and when is it counterfeiting?

No don't do that this is fun[emoji12]


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[calvinabc]

We do a lot of work for a world wide licensee, we had to sign a lot of papers and we would be very much liable if they felt there was any infringement and if there brand was damaged by anything that we had produced. obviously a bit of common sense will prevail. but it is quite a scary prospect when a big can eat the tadpole just like that. and we are not aloud to disclose or publish/advertise any of the work we do for them which is a real shame.

[socialgiraffe]

I think the original issue is getting lost in this thread...

As printers we can NOT produce items that contain copyrighted images or trademarks and sell them ourselves. We are not operating as a printing service when that happens, but are instead operating as a merchandiser. However, should a customer ask us to print something that has a logo on there that does not belong to them we can print it as long as we make it clear to the customer that any copyright permissions is solely their responsibility.

As an example, I recently did some work for the Rolling Stones.

I could print the RS logo and supply the goods to the customer as he had supplied the artwork and assumed copyright responsibility

I can NOT take the RS logo, print it on some "stuff" and then sell it on Ebay, likewise I can not advertise the RS keying as being available for purchase bulk or individual.

Where it might get grey is if I advertise my services and include an RS image. There could be an case for me inciting counterfeit trade. But it would not be Trading Standards who would follow that up, but the RS management.

This work is 100% legitimate, but if Trading Standards were to visit I would respond with, a customer came in asked me to print these and I did. If pushed legally then I would supply their details, but only if pushed. I have done nothing wrong and it is not my job to carry out their work. I am sure this position sucks for those of you who create their own designs, to be honest, it's not great for me when I see so many knocks offs for my customers on ebay, but this is how the law sees it.

[pw66]

In this case, it was use of the VW logo on their shop sign...reproducing the logo without permission. But I'm guessing the legal argument was implying that there was an association between VW and the independent garage.

'Honest referential use' of a brand name or trademark is a legitimate defence under section 11 of the Trade Mark Act 1994. It allows businesses to advertise that the services they offer are compatible with a branded product ( in the case of an independent VW specialist ). It also allows retailers to advertise the brands they stock without fear of being prosecuted for TM infringement. It also allows us printers to advertise the brands we print onto.

The use has to be both 'honest' and 'referential' - it shouldn't imply that the business is in anyway associated with or endorsed by the brand owner.

'Honest referential use' is unlikely to apply where the protected brand is used too prominently relative to your own brand. In practice, if the use gives the impression of a greater commercial connection with the protected brand than exists in reality, then the defence should fail. Maybe that was the case with the independent garage.

'Honest referential use' in no way applies to merchandise, but if a customer came into my shop wanting some workwear ( not for resale), signwriting to a vehicle or shop signage then I would consider it. If in doubt I would check with trading standards.

[GoonerGary]

@pw66
It may differ from country to country, but any use of the trademarked VW logo was prohibited when offering a 'compatible service'. You can say we fix Volkswagens, but you can't print the logo on your sign/ advert.

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail ... a448a54e69

But then, selling an Apple iPhone phone cover on your product title and using just words is an infringement if not wording correctly. Names and logos are to be used with extreme caution.

In your case Social, you know that you are dealing with the Rolling Stones, just as the professional printer knows the professional photographer, they have a trusted relationship. It's when amateurs walk in off the street is the legal minefield for everyone.

[pw66]

@pw66
It may differ from country to country, but any use of the trademarked VW logo was prohibited when offering a 'compatible service'. You can say we fix Volkswagens, but you can't print the logo on your sign/ advert.

A logo is usually covered by copyright, if it is a distinct or substantive artistic work. It will probably also be registered as a trade Mark. The laws regarding the use of copyrighted material differ from those regarding Trade Marked material. There are certain 'Fair Dealing' defences to unlicensed use of a copyrighted work, but advertising isn't one of them.

So in that respect you are correct. A logo that is covered by copyright ( even if it is also trademarked ) cannot be used. But a word mark TM can be used under the 'Honest Referential Use' defence.

In the case of the VW garage you mentioned, 'the Logo is a no go' (), but use of the text mark could be legitimate.
It is worth mentioning that in some circumstances a specific font may constitute a logo and be covered by copyright.

[socialgiraffe]

In your case Social, you know that you are dealing with the Rolling Stones, just as the professional printer knows the professional photographer, they have a trusted relationship. It's when amateurs walk in off the street is the legal minefield for everyone.

Fair point Gooner, but what happens for a new customer, I don't ask for their CV

I recently printed a load of logos for a member on here, they were for a recognized brand who I would imagine are very protective of their logo. I did not ask about copyright and nor was I interested as it is none of my business. Trading Standards could probably ask me for the customer name and I may reluctantly give it to them, but as far as them taking me to court they couldn't. They could certainly ask my customer who would probably have to provide the necessary paperwork as they are actually selling items as merchandise but not me as someone who is offering a printing service.

I appreciate it's a minefield, but as a good rule to go by, if you are asked to print something, then it is down to the customer to seek the correct permissions.