DSF

Well after my debacle of trying to get an ICC for my Epson SX215 I tried using the D120 profile for PS CS3Ext.

This didn't start off too bad and I run a couple of mugs off and they looked "ok"

Well this is where I am now...15 mugs later not a happy mug presser. All the colours are coming out too dark, a little blurry and very slight bleeding.

I bought a package from Lovecut ( how I wish I hadn't!) and I've decided that the materials sent were of a sub standard nature.

So, I put my hand back into my pocket and ordered some mugs and paper from BMS.

This is becoming an expensive sideline...arrrggghh! But one must "Percy Severe".

Any advice before I ruin another batch of mugs would be greatly appreaciated.

Regards

Neil (a slightly frustrated novice dye subber)

Let me start of by saying this isn't the reply you are going to be hoping for...

I have made posts on here in the past about buying unsupported printers for dye sublimation printing. I realise that there are members on here that have success using certain none supported printers with different profiles or custom made profiles, but for someone starting out they really should look at getting supported printers with back up from authorised distributors. This isn't a punt for business so don't take this the wrong way, but it makes me cross (because this has a financial impact on you now) when some companies supply 'sublimation printers' that can cause problems like you are experiencing.

First question - what ink are you using? If it has come from Lovecut then they are not selling Sawgrass inks and are not authorised to sell sublimation ink. If it is a Sawgrass brand (Artainium or Rotech) then you might be half way there but there are no ICC profiles for Sawgrass ink with the SX215 (as it isn't a supported printer). So you are now into trial and error with tweaking colour balances, trying different profiles to get something acceptable. You should use blank parts of mugs you've already printed on to save on further wastage, but I fear you are going to have some. Other members on here may be able to help with specific advice for the 'tweaks' and these may help with colour correctness.

As for the blurry and bleeding issue - do you have a perfect nozzle check pattern? There is no point going to print anything unless this is absolutely perfect. Blurry images might be down to pressure on the mug press. The press needs to be tight around the mug and don't print right up close to the handles. Try images that fit in the main white area of the mug first before going to full top to bottom printing to build up your experience.

I really hope you are able to get this working, but my advice to anyone reading this for the first time, starting out, is to read about supported printers. The current range are the Ricoh GXe3300 (A4), Epson B1100 (A4/A3/A3+), Epson Photo 1400 (A4/A3/A3+), Ricoh GX7000 (A4/A3). The Ricoh range come with PowerDriver to make printing simple, the Epson's use ICC profiles with Artainium inks.

Sorry this might not be what you wanted to hear...

No disrespect to AVFC but a load of people get out of bed one day and say "right, i'm going to print and sell mugs for a profit". They go down the cheapest possible route, without doing any homework at all, and then get stuck with a load of crap equipment that is just about unusable.

If you feel you're capable of setting up a cheapy CISS with an unsupported printer using cheap ink and sorting out your own profiles, then go ahead, but if you want to start printing with little hassle and plenty of backup buy a ricoh and get good results from day one.

We went through the same - the best thing we ever did was to bin the lot (printer, paper etc) and start again with a complete package from BMS - thankfully my other half is a photoshop guru which helps but we are going great guns now using our own artwork apart from photo images which are still causing some problems! I was close to binning it all together but all the people on here were a great help!

The ink I bought is visi sub. I think I will delvedeeper and buy a printer that is supported.

Blurred images are often down to over cooking the mug.
There is an optimum time, and beyond that the inks bleed beyond the desired area.
The mug needs to get upto 190c for about 40 seconds. Try reducing time a bit, if you go too short image will be weak, but probably still sharper!

Martin is right...

I use a 415 - very similar printer - with no real problems. BUT...

I've many years of experience with Epson printers; and quite a high level of technical knowledge with regard to colour theory, I.T., photography etc... I also have exceptionally good colour accuity developed over 30-odd years working with electronic imaging.

For me, the 415 worked right out the box with only a few 'tweaks'; but that really wasn't a 'turnkey' situation. Again, experience and knowledge of gicleé work is what minimised the amount of wasted stock - and note I use the word 'minimised' there; NOT eliminated.

The 415 (and, I guess) the 215 DO work well as sub-printers! - IF you know what you're doing with them. But, one way or another that knowledge won't come cheap. Not in terms of time or money.

Really the suppliers of these machines SHOULD at least be selling them with

a) A known inkset and
b) A custom profile...

They're not doing that. Which codemns the buyer to either disappointment and confusion or having to invest more money in profiling equipment and/or colour management knowledge.

The 'party line' in terms of printers and inksets is not an inexpensive route. And i believe that 'evangelising' one direction over another ultimately leaves the evangelist stuck in a 'knowledge vacuum'. It's not (in my opinion) that the sawgrass inks are better or one printer is superior to another - Simply that the heavy investment in trial, error, knowledge and experience has already been made. And many variables from an already complex process eliminated for you.

-That's what makes these 'standard' set-ups a cost-effective entry point.

For the more experienced, fiddling about with colour profiles and cheaper inksets may well be a more cost-effective option. However ultimately the knowledge and experience so gained , though a positive thing has a high price... Time, wasted blanks, perhaps more hardware...

You get nothing for nothing in this world...

Ideally you would have a custom profile not only for each printer and each inkset, but each substrate (i.e. type of blank) too! - That's perhaps a bit of overkill. But right now what you probably need is to invest in a custom profile for the set up you have.

-And you might have to do the same again when your ink runs out and you're forced to use a different inkset. I believe Martin has covered the issues with actual pressing technique; yet another set of variables to come to grips with.

avfcvillan;25228 wrote:The ink I bought is visi sub. I think I will delvedeeper and buy a printer that is supported.

Okay that's positive as VisiSub is Artainium. If you have the inks then my advice would be to buy the B1100 printer from Amazon and a set of refillable cartridges (or a bulk feed system) from a reputable seller on Ebay. You can download the profiles for the B100 direct from Sawgrass. Whilst the B1100 might be more that you need at the moment there isn't a A4 Epson printer that is currently supported.

The B1100 and an empty bulk feed system/ refillable cartridges should see change from £200 and you will be able to use all your inks.

Ok decision made new printer it is and possibly a new mug press...if I'm going to do this I'm going to do it right.

Thanks for the advice so far.

Also Martin I am fully open to any advice whether or not I like it. So again thank you it gave me the kick that I needed and a very important (and expensive) lesson has been learnt.

Buy cheap buy twice its a hard lesson that i bet everyone who's given advice on here is guilty of . Lesson learnt deep breath carry on and before long you'll be reading a similar post from someone else saying to your self i been there done that and printed the t shirt (after sortin icc profiles)