DSF

Is that a link to the US site Paul?

steve 1;63619 wrote:if you have found a brand new ricoh printer with subli jetinks at a good price then i reccomend you buy it

STOP sorry steve the info you have given is or could possibly be wrong you will only get support from sawgrass for your printer if and only if the printer has been bought from an authorisded sawgrass dealer
Example if i bought a shed load of ricoh printers and subli inks and sold them as sublui set ups thers nothing to say they wont woork but when problems come along and you ring sawgrass they will want proof of where you bought the printer when you tell them you got the printer from me they will say `sorry he is not an authorised sawgrass dealer we can not help you` simple as that

Scottmurray ive noticed a few times you have said im not bothered by support is it illegal with the greastest of respect i can see a lot more posts off you with questions like im not getting cyan or the colours arnt right and so on you will get these problem we all do sometimes its very easily fixed sometimes its a printer problem .

If its a printer problem what are you going to do ? if you bought it from a non sauthorised sawgrass dealer you have no warranty epson will not honour a warranty of a printer that has has sublimation ink go through it if you bought from a sawgrass authorised dealer then sawgrass will honour the warranty and if they cant fix it they will arrange a new printer (supports lookin pretty good now huh)

So you lets say decide to ignore all the advice given here and problems arise sawgrass refuse to help what next? well my guess is you will turn to the good old forum and ask members here so let me ask you this . Most of us here have used good sense paid the premium amount bought proper inks and printers from a sawgrass dealer what you would be saying is ive bought cheap gone against advice and now i want you lot to sort out the problems. I dont mean to sound so harsh but we all started or businesses small we all made the mistakes and we all learnt the hard way im afraid theres no easy buck to be made in this industry anymore its damn hard work very frustrating at times and really does require a working knowladge of sublimation. By an unsupported system at your own peril but i would scrimp and save to buy a decent set up with decent support and while you are saving use your time wisely by reading the past posts in the forum everything you need to know is here somewhere but one thing is repeated often ...... buy cheap then buy twice !

Personally Scottmurray I would purchase the Ricoh, but then I have a Ricoh and never had any problems whatsoever. There are users of Epson's who will also say the same.

As far as I am aware, you can not refill Ricoh cartridges and would have to purchase new carts.

Scott... Now read again what purpledragon got to say. Read it twice. Good advice there....

Then make a tea and read the forum.

also, if you want a better understanding of the legal issues involved in this, and the complexities of the Sawgrass patent (what they claim it is vs what the patent actually states) then Google for "are Sawgrass the ink police"

And, for clarity, when people talk about "support" and Sawgrass systems, you would be better off reading it as "warranty."

If you go the official Sawgrass route, then Sawgrass will cover your warranty on your printer (Epson won't want anything to do with your printer if things go wrong with sublimation inks in it, as you will have voided their warranty by putting them in.) So, this "warranty support" does have some value in itself, and is one reason why buying a sublimation printer and inks from a Sawgrass supplier will cost you more than buying any Epson printer from Argos, and then a load of cheap Chinese sublimation inks from eCrater or AliBaba.

Support can also mean, more generically, (and this may be the cause of some confusion to new users posting here) having a supplier than can help you out when things go wrong, or talk you through setting things up - now this is definitely not something exclusive to Sawgrass and their dealers.

So, if you are absolutely adamant that you are going to ignore the advice given to you by a lot of the members here, and go ahead and buy non-Sawgrass ink, then this is very important advice, which I hope you won't also ignore.... (I am not saying you should go this route, but if you do, the following should help you have fewer headaches, and not have to come running back to the forum for help so soon)

1. You need to be sure that the ink you are buying is a good quality. It should come in a branded bottle, and the advert should mention what brand it is. If the bottle pictured in the advert is plain, non branded, and just says "sublimation ink" or "ink for Epson" be very wary. If it has a brand name, then Google that brand, and see how big/reputable a company they appear. Look for reviews comments from people using the ink too.
2.. Get in touch with the seller - see if/how they reply to you. You will be looking for a seller who is friendly and actually uses the inks themselves, and seems the type who can talk you through things, especially advising you on how to get set up etc. What "support" can he offer you?
3. You want to be sure of being able to continue to get hold of the inks that you buy into. You do not want to be changing inks (assuming you've found one that is a good quality) as you will cause yourself more headaches trying to change - not all sublimation inks are the same - one brand can be a very different colour to the next. So look for an ink that has plenty of suppliers offering it.
4. You will need to get an custom ICC profile made - this is not a hard process, and will cost about £25 - you can find a seller on Ebay offering this service. This will let your computer/printer know how to mix the inks you have into the colours you want (see point 3)

Like you, i was on a budget, i didnt care about sawgrass and warrenties etc, I WAS THE MAN! UNTILL 6 months down the line im on the forum looking and asking lots and lots of questions about why things were not as goood as mugs in asda etc etc, so guess what! I BOUGHT A RICOH, AND NOW I AM THE MAN!!!!!!

Scott,
I've just read through this topic and it looks like you are wanting to get into 'sub' on a shoe string budget which in all honesty isn't going to work. The only way to do it is do it properly with the right equipment otherwise you 'will' (from the experience of others) be wasting your money. If you buy a non supported printer you are 'on your own' as far as the supplier/manufacturer is concerned. You will need to pay out for a 'profile' to get the correct colours or you will not get decent results. Depending on your intended production quantity you will find an Epson needs to be used regularly otherwise you will get print head problems. The Ricoh is not susceptible to this and can be left for days/weeks and still perform properly.

In a nutshell........buy cheap...buy twice.

You can do it on a budget, but you need to put the time in on research as to finding the right compromise in terms of cost vs quality to find what you need. There isn't much point buying the cheapest Epson printer from Argos, along with imprting the cheapest sublimation inks you can find on AliBaba, and expect to just get professional quality results that you would see the buyers at John Lewis jumping over themselves to buy your product.
Epson build a range of products at different price points to appeal to different types of end users. The S22, probably their cheapest printer, and often sold as a cheap sublimation printer on Ebay, is built to be a cheap occasional printer for a home user who has a few things to print, who doesn't so much care for quality, just something to adequately print something onto paper. Now, you are wanting to do with decent results, as a business, so would need to be looking at Epson printers which fit that bracket/market/price point, so you're either looking at their proper photo/art printers or their business/office printers.
Inks are again the same kind of deal - you want a good quality ink, of a professional level, not some cheap junk. Bad ink causes problems - like clogging and blocking your printer - if you're doing this as a business and rely on the income then you need reliability, not risking your lovely shiney new printer with cheap unknown junk from China.

RogerC;63697 wrote:You will need to pay out for a 'profile' to get the correct colours or you will not get decent results.

Which is only about £25 - hardly breaking the bank, or a huge set up cost.

Depending on your intended production quantity you will find an Epson needs to be used regularly otherwise you will get print head problems. The Ricoh is not susceptible to this and can be left for days/weeks and still perform properly.

There is nothing miraculous about Ricoh's printers in terms of not being susceptible to clogging - Ricoh only get round this problem by the printer running print head clean cycles whilst the printer is on/on standby. So, you're using your expensive ink whether you are printing or not. With Epson printers you do have to look after them yourself in this respect.

In a nutshell........buy cheap...buy twice.

Buy too cheap, and buy twice definitely, but there is a good middle ground, where you get to choose which printers fits your actual needs, rather than the few available as supported, and you can choose which ink you want to use, in terms of cost and quality.

We went cheap, and bought second hand large format printers on Ebay, for less than you spend on a Sawgrass warrantied A4 printer. This gave us very good proper professional level printers, along with the option of using commercial level professional inks, and never looked back on the days of struggle with a supposed 'official' Epson 1400 with Sawgrass inks, which was temperamental at best. We now have printers we can rely on for our business.