DSF

Ian M;65743 wrote:Lots of very interesting points I have to say.

I think the forum should be a closed forum because we have seen so many come & get the information they want & then disappear never to be seen again. I have also noticed a few people join in the past few weeks just to try to sell items which is more annoying. I think if non premium members want to sell on here they should have to pay for the privilege to be able to do that.

Over the last couple of years I have seen a few classic car club forums try being open to non members but, they all have now become only open to fee paying club members. They were getting lots of people asking how to fix problems with their cars etc & once they got the answers they were never to be seen again. I really do think we do need to have fee paying members only. Lets face it when I first started out there really wasn't anywhere I could go to ask someone how to solve a problem I had. I had to sort it out myself which cost me time & money. At that time I would have been more than happy to pay £10 per year just for the help I needed at the time.

As for transparency over where the money is going well, there is always going to people who want to know what you are doing with every single penny & those who don't. I think most of us know by now this forum doesn't cost money to host etc & I think we have to ask ourselves would we work for nothing. One thing I can tell you is I don't receive anything for being a moderator & I pay my £10 like most others do because, I think it is well worth every penny.

Just one last thing, where could you get the same help & advice for just under 3p per day?

Couldnt agree more i can hardly believe im saying it but i personally think non paying members should be able to read posts and nothing more this would help save the same questions being asked time and again if newbies have to search for answers and i also think the for sale section should definatly be restricted to enable paying members to be able to post but not non members again its hardly fair that you can join the forum sell a printer then leave the forum

JSR;65704 wrote:If people are signing up just for what discounts they can get out of the forum, then that's the wrong reason to be signing up. Discounts, etc, should be the icing on the cake - not the whole cake.

I pay my membership fee not for discounts but to support the forum, to ensure it keeps going. On that score, I admit to a curiosity of how much the forum requires to keep going, whether those costs are being met, and if the costs are being exceeded then what the extra cost is going towards.

After all, if the costs are not being met, then we could pay more to meet those costs. And if the costs are being exceeded, then I think it's only right that we should know what the excess is being put towards - future server costs, better forum software, forum enhancements, or whatever.

This kind of transparency might encourage others to sign up. For instance, many might think that putting a forum on a bit of web-space isn't so expensive that it requires a hundred people paying a tenner plus paid adverts. If the money spent, and money received, was made more transparent, it might sway those who currently aren't premium members. Not everyone is swayed by discounts. Some people are swayed by whether their money is going to a good cause and being wisely spent.

It doesn't sway me particularly, beyond idle curiosity, otherwise I wouldn't pay each year, but it may sway others if everything was made more transparent.

I never said people only sign up for the discounts but lets be honest this is what is mentioned by most when people welcome someone to the forum they welcome them then there is encouragement to join premium membership as there are great discounts.

I personally have paid as I have gained some great knowledge form the forum and the only way for it to continue is for people to pay the £10.

As I say I have paid and to be honest I don't give two hoots where the money goes and if it keeps Justin in silk clothes and fast cars then so be it. I am a member of other forums as a lot of people on here have mentioned they are also in the past and this is the first time I have ever heard of anybody wanting to know where the money goes. If someone is a "shareholder" then they can ask too see but as far as being members goes as I said above I don't really care where the money goes.

Regards the giving info for free I do feel this subject has been done to death numerous times and as has been said loads of times before nobody has to give answers if they want to contribute to the forum then great but if they don't then they don't, again in others forums people don't go on about being paid fees for answers etc maybe if Justin wants to set up an experts questions and answer section then "employ" a couple of people to answer the major questions that there are no answers for already maybe this would please some but me personally think that answering Qs on a forum is exactly what it is about and if I can do so to help someone out I would not hesitate and I do not want anything for it as no doubt I will have a question that needs answering one day.

I agree that selling items should be only members and maybe something like only the general section open to public and all the specialised/individual sections closed to paying members

Craig;65774 wrote: the first time I have ever heard of anybody wanting to know where the money goes

again in others forums people don't go on about being paid fees for answers

I wasn't aware that I was "going on about being paid fees". If I haven't made myself clear enough in all the words I've written, then I don't know how I can rephrase myself to make my points any clearer, but I shall try...

My points about "payment for answers" was in context to someone else suggesting that this isn't a forum for likeminded individuals but a business.

In my reply to you (which you've quoted, so you must have read it), I thought I'd made it pretty clear that transparency of costs would also help ensure that all the forum/hosting/server costs are being met and, if not, we could pay more to ensure those costs are met. If those costs are being exceeded, then knowing that they're being put towards future improvements/enhancements might encourage more people to sign up.

I fail to see why everyone thinks that having all fees disappear down some virtual blackhole is somehow better than transparency. What would be gained by hiding where the fees are spent? Indeed, what is there to hide? Nothing, I wouldn't have thought, so what's the problem with transparency?

I think the advise abd things like the free templates from Paul make £10 a year more than worth it if we break it down its only 2.7p per day or 19p a week or £1.20 a week

i think it should be £10 a year to see the forum, take it private, and hopefully make a few bob, - you have been paying the costs for years, it is a great forum, and I value it! - memo to self, - pay fees asap!

Interesting read so far....

Here's my view (don't shoot, I'm picking up some anti-newbie vibes already)

As a newbie, I would find it bizarre to pay for something that I haven't yet tried/tested I understand that some members will be fed up with newbies asking the same questions, and I would hope that most of us (newbies) would search for answers first, as I'm sure most of them have been answered already, but sometimes enthusiasm gets in the way and you ask first

As a previous post said, people don't need to answer questions if they don't want to!

I have no problem at all with making sale/discounts area paid access only, but I think you would do yourself an injustice if you took it further - I understand the frustration identified above re people just turning up and selling/buying stuff never to be seen again so dividing this up might solve the problem.

At the moment I'm incredibly happy with how the forum operates- my questions have all been answered (and quickly too) and I have gained invaluable knowledge, however I understand that it must be give and take, and at the moment, as a newbie I'm finding it difficult to make post replies as I don't know enough!, this will come over time and when it does I will re-evaluate whether I should 'go premium'

Final thought, if you're 'premium only' you may stifle new membership (especially the ones willing to learn, but knowing nothing- like me!). Is that what you want?

We dont shoot newbies .....yet
there isnt an anti newbie stance on the forum or i dont think so anyway but there are issues surrounding new guys comming in and asking time and again the same questions this has been discussed many times before now as a newbie if you arrived on the forum and were unable to post you would have 2 choices leave the page and look else where for your answers or put a simple search in the forum search box to see if the answers are there . That way you would still get all the info you need for free.
I do find your line

"it difficult to make post replies as I don't know enough!, this will come over time and when it does I will re-evaluate whether I should 'go premium' "

a little odd in essance what you are saying is teach me what i need to know and then if i find that usefull i may pay membership .
at the risk of sounding a bit condacending (its not my intention) but would you sign up to a collage course and tell them "i'll pay for the course if i find it usefull but teach me first and i'll see"
In the current ecanomic climate i can only see more and more new guys on the scene with ideas of selling mugs and becoming a millionare on the back of it (believe me it wont happen) Cheap chinease imports of mugs and machineary make the industry extremely accesable the problems come when people realise its not as easy as first thought and when the problems start with tuppneybit mug presses and unlicensed inks etc inevitably a google search would follow and in turn more people land on the forum . yes we can take the stance of not answering questions . The forum wouldnt last long if we all did that but after paying hundreds of pounds (thousands if you have bought the right kit) is it really so much to ask for a tenner to have access to the wealth of information and direct access to suppliers try searching for training days in dye sublimation im willing to bet its a darn site more than a tenner yet you will find all that info here . and at the moment for free!

ck1;65806 wrote:As a previous post said, people don't need to answer questions if they don't want to!

And if everyone got so frustrated that no one answered questions, where would this forum be then? Where would the next generation of newbies get their help and advice from for free?

ck1;65806 wrote:I'm finding it difficult to make post replies as I don't know enough!, this will come over time and when it does I will re-evaluate whether I should 'go premium'

This highlights the issue I was trying to address. If people see the "membership fee" as payment for help/advice, then they'll only pay it if they feel they're getting value for money. If, however, the membership fee is seen as a token payment to ensure the forum continues (which is what it was originally meant to be), then it's separate from any help/advice. Whether the help/advice is good enough isn't the point of the "membership fee" because no one who gives that help/advice is getting that payment. They are offering their help/advice for free.

Paying the membership fee ensures that the forum (servers/software) continues into the future so that it's still here when the next generation of newbies comes along to ask questions.

Pay if you want the forum to continue into the future. Don't pay if you don't want that. That's the only reasoning that should go into your decision of whether to pay or not.

I was asked for my view,and I've given it

purpledragon, what I was trying to say was that as a newbie I don't have much to offer in terms of knowledge and experience, just enthusiasm - I would not want to pay for something (a paid forum) and feel I couldn't contribute to it actively, which would include helping those who needed it, but I do understand where you're coming from, especially the amount of people who want to come in, with cheap kit etc and then run into problems.

JSR - what you said about membership fee for advice etc is nearer the mark I think - I visit a lot of other forums for my other interests and hobbies and all, with only one exception don't require payment. All the 'free' ones typically have a donate button or start a thread for 'forum server fees' or similar. The one forum that does charge (again £10-must be a 'forum' thing!) gives you greater access to software/training etc which is not available on the open part of the forum

And just for info- regarding searching the forum, I posted recently about a mug template with standard features for testing, I thought I might be able to contribute by setting one up and offering it to the membership however, a user contacted me (Paul) as he had already done so - he told me what to search for in the forum search box but it didn't find it as the words were all too common, he then suggested using google and that got me straight to the page(on this forum!) - so I guess I'm saying if you restrict newbies just to viewing and searching you need to ensure the searches work, or have clear instructions on how to search!

Newbie comment over!, I notice my member status is now 'member' instead of 'junior' does this mean I qualify to give advice ?
(No, I thought not!! - I'll keep listening and learning and help to add value to this forum soon, one way or another!