DSF

purpledragon;53496 wrote:again fair comments so do we now have justin saying sorry we dont discuss copyright issues here? as paul mentioned earlier how many people on here use illegal software photo shop etc so do we need a hot line to adobe to check serial numbers before answering questions?
how many on here work from the back room of their house not paying tax or nat insurance do we know check these details before answering questions where does it end? it just seems its started and stopped at 1 item . Personally I would think people as business people would want the best results i have various printers if i use one for just printing job sheets then the cheapest ink i can use is what id go for but in my canon wide format printer im sure i could get ink half the price as compatables but i wouldnt want to compramise my machine or print quality so really its self policing

On the copyright we do discuss it here, but someone generally points out that its wrong, there is a pm service here if people wish to advise about inks and printers that is not open to all and sundry, I think most of us agree that saw-grass holds every one to blackmail with the way they do the inks ect, but it is law and that we cannot be seen to given advice on this subject , we cannot pick what we like and disregard the laws that we don't agree. Its like the tax issue about who pays and or not, or cash paid under the counter and not declared. So this forum have to work within the foundation of what is legal or otherwise it would be closed down and we would end up with no advice on the many many subject that we can discuss.

whoa ...just had a read through this thread...some mighty fine points from all sides but.....
at the end of the day, the FINAL/end decision lies with Justin.
He's the guy thats gonna take the flak from soreass, sorry, saw-grass, if they want to take it further, and it is HIS forum at the end of the day guys.....
I agree with the others about not being able to talk about other inks,it sucks but, i also respect Justin decision on not to.

Great thread......
I thought the protection was against SELLING wide format ink to a small format user, - not in how you use it, - so the emphasis is on the seller to ensure the product goes to an authorised user ..... but i could be wrong.
Also - this is civil law, - not legal law, - unlike getting caught with a joint! - thou i don't think you can be done for having THC in your blood, - unless you are driving, - or an olympic athlete !

The KEY QUESTION, - just what difference in price actually is there?
It is a fair assumption that a 'large format' user will consume and hence buy a shed load more ink, - hence qualify for lower price structure.
So, Volume for volume, for a consistant quality ink product from a long term reliable vendor, just what is the price difference?

The KEY QUESTION, - just what difference in price actually is there?

Phil, hope your sat down for this one as the answer is around £300 if you were buying it by the litre per colour. A quality 3rd party large format sublimation ink that is licensed by Sawgrass can be bought for just over £80 per litre.

jennywren;53503 wrote:On the copyright we do discuss it here, but someone generally points out that its wrong, there is a pm service here if people wish to advise about inks and printers that is not open to all and sundry,.

i do luv a good debate
you are right jenny someone does generally point out its wrong so whats wrong with someone pointing out that using ripped off ink is wrong . I'm not advocating that we should or should not discuss it here i just wanted to know if there was a specific reason for not discussing otther inks and as yet there hasnt been a definate answer paul says im right its a free country to discuss what we like and we can discuss the inks though i have seen posts where paul has come out with the line " sorry cant discuss that here " so we obviously cant discuss it . At the end of the day you can come up with any argument against talking about these inks and apply that to almost anything else which might have dubious overtones ie copyright, software piracy etc so unless theres a legal reason (and as yet this has just been suggested that it could be a possible reason but not confirmed by the forum owners) i still can not see why it can not be discussed

ps Logo bear the law does state believe it or not that if you have narcotics in your bloodstream then tecnically its possetion

logobear;53514 wrote:Great thread......
I thought the protection was against SELLING wide format ink to a small format user, - not in how you use it, - so the emphasis is on the seller to ensure the product goes to an authorised user ..... but i could be wrong.
Also - this is civil law, - not legal law, - unlike getting caught with a joint! - thou i don't think you can be done for having THC in your blood, - unless you are driving, - or an olympic athlete !

I was led to believe it is illegal to use in a small format printer as well as the seller letting you buy them. I also heard a story a few years back when there was more talk of this going on that a large printer in the US had threats off Sawgrass going after them and reclaiming lost earnings on what they should have been buying at from them. Loss of earnings I would think is a viable route for them to persue as they hold the patent whether people like it or not. For that reason I wouldn't openly go declaring the flaunting of their patent for anyone who does go this route. I doubt very much they would bother with anyone who just does the odd litre here and there but better safe than sorry.

My big issue is what they class as desktop..... even the 7000 series is still desktop which is just a ridiculous claim. Picking up a used 9000 series Epson isn't actually that expensive for anyone who wished to be beyong SG's hold.

It could be the case where large format ink is sold in 5 ltrs which would then make it less viable for the smaller user and if anyone who uses a "desktop" printer buys at that level then they are obviously a volume printer but allowed to use a printer that suits their business. We have had a couple of 9000 series printers and to be totally honest, I would much prefer a tray loading printer rather than roll as A4 is far more convenient for mugs.

I think Ricoh and gel inks will change things as I reckon this is the route SG will push into. It seems to be an easier system to use for less blockages etc.

Paul;53474 wrote:yes. it is not illegal. all responsibility is in supplier hands i think. thats why they have to ask about printer serial number.

its bit like with drugs you wont be arrested if caught using them. but try to sell...

I don't know what country you are talking about but in the UK it is a Criminal Offence under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 to be in possession of a Controlled Substance unless you have a licence authorising you to do so.
The Penalty for which ranges from 2 years to 7 years in prison or a fine or both.
as to if you will be arrested or not depends on which class of drug you have and what the local police guidelines are for the drug you have.

Well I think we should all get together and buy one large format sublimation printer and then order a load of ink lol If that is all that is needed to buy the ink cheaper and legally whether we then use it in other printers.

Lets be honest most of us are happy to pay sawgrass prices if we can cover the costs in our finished products.

If you compare the cost of an A4 sheet of sublimation paper and the ink cost against say buying transfer papers for laser or inkjet then the cost is probably comparable as a printed sheet.

Technically, you could as a group all buy a share in a second hand Epson 9000 series printer (even a broken one!) and then have access to the serial number for that printer if you have a dealer unwilling to sell you ink without the serial number, or even just ask a seller on Ebay for the serial number of one they have for sale (as this could be a legitimate question for finding out the age/history of the printer, and most printer owners wouldn't know you'd need a serial number to buy ink from some places, however not all dealers ask for a serial number, especially web based shops where you just place the order and it arrives the next day.

You can't legally use wide format ink in desktops regardless of how it was bought. That is what the patent covers.