DSF

Justin;15614 wrote:If the patent was no longer in force the market would be flooded with cheap inks, some good, some not so good. Everyone would be dye subbing so the competition would become even greater. This may not reflect my personal opinion entirely but must be taken into account.

To be honest, this situation is already happening.

As more people enter the dye-sub market, there's higher demand for cheaper ink and to be able to choose our own printers - patent or no patent.

Those of us who stick to the "supported" systems and pay for the expensive ink are already at the mercy of those who don't. This will continue to happen while supported inks are generally unaffordable. By way of example, if I want to buy all four inks to setup a new printer it'll cost me £240 for the "supported" inkset. An unsupported inkset costs £60. It's even worse for a 6 ink inkset which would be £360 for a supported system, and just £90 for unsupported.

That's a huge cost difference when setting up a new or backup system, and this is why the demand for cheaper inks is so high.

There is the argument that "oh, but you don't get a profile" - but with an initial cost saving of almost £300, you can buy your own profiling device and make profiles from here to eternity. Problem solved.

If the "supported" ink was just half the price it is, I'm sure it would sway an awful lot of people who are currently tempted by Chinese inks to go down the "supported" path. Even if they didn't want to halve the price, offering half the capacity for half the price would probably do the same trick.

DREAMGLASS;15606 wrote:Hopefully one day someone will challenge the 'patent' through the monopolies commission, as apart from the print width, there is very little difference between small format and large format printers.

Someone has challenged them and the most recent I believe was TOG. Others have lost before this but TOG fought their corner for quite a while supplying into the small format users saying that the patent was rubbish etc and that they would fight for the small users. Very soon after when court was on the way they sold out to SG and that was that over. No other suppliers are fighting the patent.

I know SG have taken a company to court in the past and claimed back the difference in what the company had been saving by nuying large format. This was in the States though. I am surprised so many ink providers will sell to small format users without checking first. With my supplier I had to give the serial number of my printer to prove I had large format. It's the providers who are the obvious target for SG as PurpleMonkey found out when they thought they could just re-bottle large format ink.

Just found this:-

Updated: January 12th, 2011 10:30 AM CDT


Sawgrass Wins European Patent Review Sawgrass Technologies, Inc. Sawgrass Technologies, Inc. has announced that the European Patent Office (EPO) has upheld a core Sawgrass sublimation technology patent. The EPO conducted a review of Sawgrass Patent No. 0778798B1, involving liquid sublimation inks and inkjet printing processes for high quality transfer printing applications utilizing inkjet printers and found no basis for changing the scope of the patent.

"The EPO review was exhaustive, and its decision is a clear victory for our customers and the technological value we bring to them," said Nathan Hale, Sawgrass founder and CEO. "We will now focus on expanding our sublimation solutions throughout Europe, where we are experiencing rapid growth with our SubliJet, ArTainium, and Rotech brands, for both desktop and large format printers." Sawgrass also will promote in Europe its newest innovations in digital ink technologies, including ChromaBlast and NaturaLink.

Sawgrass has registered patents in the United States and around the world. "In similar disputes regarding the validity of Sawgrass patents, courts have continuously ruled in favor of Sawgrass intellectual property rights," added Hale. "Our commitment to growing the sublimation market in Europe is strong, and we invite interested companies to consider licensing Sawgrass technology. Working together, we can bring the best possible solutions to customers throughout Europe."

So the patent protects small format printers, what's the point where a sublimation printer becomes large format?

Exactly Justin & at what size does a printer become a large format printer.

Wasn't this the same with Rotech in Europe? Rotech used to be independant of Sawgrass and sold inks within Europe. Eventually Sawgrass took them over (or did Rotech sucumbe to Sawgrass?). Either way they are no longer independant. Given TG threw large sums of money trying (unsucessfully) to argue the case, it's not surprising other companies don't fight the battle whatever your position is on the rights or wrongs of this.

what's the point where a sublimation printer becomes large format?

When it has a print capacity of 42" or wider.

Thought it was 42". What about a 24" printer which prints both ways! LOL.....I'll not argue that one in court

What about a 24" printer

No offence to be caused by this comment, but have you tried a dyslexic supplier of sublimation inks

I'm surprised the 7000 series didn't get into the largeformat range as it certainly can't be classed as a desktop. The 9000 series is always the safe bet to stay out of SG reach.