DSF

John G;87211 wrote:I used to use polymer plates from BASF - exposed on a standard lightbox/printdown frame, and then washed out with BASF alcohol solution. Had plates that had done well over 20K prints with no issues.

Cheers John

Thanks.

We learn something new everyday:)
I've only ever worked with steel clichés as the machines I was printing on were printing over 50k per week.

In that case I guess it really depends on how many u want to print. What does the cost work out at for a polymer plate?

Many thanks for the valued replies - I am reading them and taking action (thinking) as a result.

Maybe an Auto machine is not the way to go:

Delay times for instance..

Manual seems to be the way for me as I am not planning on anything like 20k runs - maybe 500 at most..

As I already have the Polymer plate making gear I hope to be able to use that but that is not my main consideration at the moment - The original machine I posted does have a closed ink cup and doctor blade but their quality has been questioned by myself.

I found a Kent machine already, but that will be over kill for me - although I realise that would hold its resale value.

I am looking at these now:

Here @ £500 (with exposure which I don't need)

...AND

Here at £230 (Without exposure machine)

These look to be the same machine ? of course I cannot tell the materials these are made from - which is my main concern at the moment.. I dont want to buy one made from plastic (you get my drift - more like a cast Alloy) which I would have no real way of repairing if something should break.

I think both of these have an X-Y table, and as they are Manual the 'Delay' would be by me.

Thoughts?

Oh, One of my best customers has a stand at the Royal Norfolk Show this year and I want him to come to me for everything (apart from Banners which I cannot compete with it seems @ £19 for a 6ft x 2ft colour).

.. I will buy one and then a member will pop up saying 'Why didn't you ask me as I have just what you need for sale..lol.

Its hard just watching a video but i'd be asking a question whether the pad pressure is adjustable (on the machine) for picking the ink up off the plate and then when depositing it onto the blank item. If this is just a guess by the operator while printing, then user error would result in to much pressure and a blurred or smudged print - or too little pressure and parts missing off the print. Printing a few hundred and the pressure will change as your arm will get tired. It does look very workable and the plates look the same colour as the BASF ones I used to use. Same action too with doctor blade and flood bar.

I cannot remember the price but we used to buy plates direct from BASF, in A3 size, (along with a barrel of alcohol) and then cut them down to size in the dark room with a guillotine. I think it worked out at around £12 - £15 per exposed and developed plate.

At those prices for the machine, its worth a punt.

Just checked the video again and the one shown uses a doctor blade - the ones they are selling on the listing are closed cup. Make sure you ask which one you'll receive - I think closed cup are the best, but i've never used that type.

Hi Nik

what ink are you looking at using?

Our tall friend put me on to a company in Milton Keynes - Marabu, who make an ink specifically for pad printing onto ceramics and that should be dishwasher safe - well for a while at least. They will sell you a sample pack for 20 quid. This ink does need to be cured to achieve maximum longevity - something like 130 degrees for half an hour, but a higher temp for a shorter period (ie in a mug press) may also give similar results. The best results would appear to be from black ink as some of the colours may shift in tone if heater to dye sub temps. If you wanted to print your colour logo - good luck. Printing one colour is not so difficult but multiple colours in registration no thanks.

I looked at the pad printers from CPL - they sell a hundred and one different packages on ebay and its a nightmare trying to work out which one gives you the most bangs per buck. I seem to remember that it was going to cost me in the order of £750 plus vat for the complete set up including cliches, uv exposure unit, and some inks that I didn't want. One think you have to be really careful with is the selection of your pad. Whoever you buy from you need to talk to them about the diameter of the image you want to print so that you can get the right size of pad and the right grade. I'd talk to someone like Padtec in Buckingham about silicon pads, they also sell Marabu inks and may be able to offer more practical advice than Marabu themselves. I found with CPL that although they were really keen to sell me a unit, they said they had no demonstration facilities for one of these small printers. Whatever printer you go with it should really be a closed cup system as the inks are spirit based and quite volatile. In an open cup system the inks would have a very short working life - maybe half a day at the most. In a closed cup I am told you would probably get 2 days before you had to strip the machine and clean down.

I didn't buy one as I can't justify the outlay at present but its certainly something I would look into in the longer term - if the inks perform as required. If I were shifting pallet quantities of mugs I'd get Listawoods to print them for me as their charges are very reasonable - if you buy in quantity but for small batches of a few hundred its just not cost effective.

Let me know how you get on Nik.


regards


Arthur

Hi again,

Before your take the following as gospel please note that I am coming from an environment where quality had to be much higher than general promo' items. I was responsible for printing onto baby bottles for Philips Avent which was not only high volume but a difficult process involving specialist pre-treatment to allow ink adhesion onto Polypropelene (and other Materials).

With this in mind - The manual delay would not be accurate enough. 1/2 second delay could be the difference between a good print and a poor print. For your situation a manual delay may well be fine. I Just wanted to you to be aware if possibilities.

Also, I'll second what Arthur said about Marabu. I have worked with them personally and they are one of very few companies with a UK branch that actually "Make" the ink as oppose to buying it and slapping their own label on it.

I'd be keen to know your decision and how you get on

I will keep you all posted, The machine Angloman posted is the the best I have found as yet - I have been spending hours looking for images of these various machines in an attempt to work out how they are made, well - at least trying to get as clear a picture as I can to quality.

Ink's - yes, this is it ! most of thes done come with any inks so that would be the next thing - sounds like I just found my supplier though going by the comments above.

Arthur, I havent tried making negatives from vinyl but have considered it.. thats another thing - I have been looking at the plates for these Pad printers, they are 100mm x 200mm. My exposure unit is 145mm deep and I notice that only the end you need exposed needs anything doing to it so I may even be ok with what I have in that regard as its only the design that needs to be washed out - as opposed to the opposite I have here (which needs the whole polymer plate to be exposed as the waste is washed away - other way around to the BASF plates). I hope you can understand that.

I just need to find a good quality machine, closed cup of course - with a ceramic blade.

NikGrey;87344 wrote:
I just need to find a good quality machine, closed cup of course - with a ceramic blade.

Not sure how far your budget stretches but there are some around the second hand market.

http://www.pdsinternational.com/printin ... osed%20Cup - A mixture of 2,4,6 coulour printers here. (This is not my company by the way and although I know the director I am not affiliated in any way).

Fella's - I have the chance of obtaining a KENT PP23E but know very little about it.

Does anybody have any experience with these - or know any thing about them ?

Not sure if you can view this link as bidding has ended (I was watching it so thats maybe why I can still see it) HERE.

I cant seem to find any info on this for some reason - thats worrying, but this does look like a proper industrial machine. I do have an air supply by the way.

Had a morlock which is similar - well all labels were in German so it was trial and error at first. lol
There will be certain controls which should be generic to most machines.

Pad down / up
Plate forward / backward
manual / auto
a counter
a foot switch for manual
Most of the other controls may be at the back such as speed, angle dwell etc.

If you see it before buying, switch it all on and with the cliche in, but no doctor blade attached, set it to auto and see it move. While watching it you'll see how it all works - very easy to use once set up correctly. Check all tubes/pipes for air leaks and make sure it has some oil/lube in it - if it uses it.

Cheers John

Forgot to add - there may be a dial to adjust:
Pad pressure to plate
Pad pressure to item