DSF

bms;53475 wrote:I think if I were in Sawgrass's shoes and a forum was openly discussing a route to sublimation printing that went against the legal protections that are in force then I could imagine a legal challenge being launched.

I think this is a bit different story here...

tell someone to sod sawgrass inks and go for cheaper ones then yes. this may come up with some troubles.
but discussing those ink and helping other members who ALREADY HAVE THEM AND USE THEM is bit funny in my ayes.

but i am not a rebbel kind of man and will do the right thing...

o you won't be arrested for using drugs in the street? Blimey, Police are pretty laid back around your way!

are you printing on the street Justin??
I can tell you one thing buddy
if police visit your place and see you with joint in your month then worst that can happen is you will loose your supply for rest of the week

The issue I have personally is that we are giving advice to members who clearly are using non supported printers and third party sourced inks. Whilst the former is not usually admitted it is often assumed and this is where I see the grey area.

Discussing these inks isn't really an issue I wouldn't think but how can they be discussed without members admitting using/buying them?

As I say, I'll speak to Sawgrass and find out what the score is and report back.

I agree with what both Brett & Andrew say because you both make a lot of sense.

As a few of you know I have been using non Sawgrass ink in a non supported printer for quite a few years now without any problems at all. Now the thing that really gets me is the ink I use is licensed by non other than Sawgrass but, it is supposed to be for large format printers only. You don't need to be Einstein to realise that whatever size an ink jet printer is this ink will work in any of them. When I first started out in this business I used Rotech inks & had no idea whatsoever who Sawgrass were or anything about their patent in using desktop printers. I found out about the inks I now use when some friends in Australia sent me some bottles of it to use & when that was nearly gone I found out who supplied the same ink in this country. The only thing I'm doing wrong is using the said ink in a desktop printer & I've never had anyone come knocking at my door to me I shouldn't be doing that.

I did take the supported route like most of us did all those years ago & if I was starting out now I would do just the same again. I then decided to take a different route after gaining the knowledge & experience that you need to take such a step. I also took a gamble too & this was really to see if I could save some money which I have done. Jonathan (JSR) did the same as me going down the Brother route & he also has had a lot of success too I'm pleased to say. We have proved with a bit of thinking & experience it can be done without any loss of quality at all. The thing that does annoy not only me but, some others is that we now have so called instant experts on this forum who have gone down this route using that knowledge & experience it has taken someone else to build up & put into practice. These people will come running back to the forum when they have problems with this non supported set up wanting an instant fix from us & this is where the problem lies. If I have a problem I have a damn good idea what has caused it & I will fix it myself using the knowledge & experience I have gained going down this route.

I would love to discuss openly on here all about non supported inks but, if we do we get new members just starting out who think all their birthday's & Christmas' have come all at once. If they do go down the unsupported route then we know that there is a very good chance that they will be asking over & over again why this has gone wrong & why aren't I getting the same colours I see on the moniotor screen etc. Now if someone new goes down the supported route they have what it says on the tin 'support'. Just ask yourselves how many times have you seen someone with a supported set up ask a question & you see Martin (BMS) reply with a link to their FAQ's?

I too believe in free speech like Brett but, sometimes you have to be careful how you say something not to upset or annoy someone else. This coming week I have been invited to several face to face meetings with senior council officals & leading councillors about a couple of planned waste plant developments near where I live. I would love to go into each meeting & tell them in short words what I really think of them all but, this will get me nowhere at all. I'm going to have to be my most diplomatic at all times with them even knowing I have some very sensitive documents that if made public could cost them over £30 million & would stop everything in an instant. I'm having to play the game to be honest but, I know if I take this approach I will get a lot of extra funding for my community which it needs.

The only way we would know what could happen to us is if Justin asks Sawgrass that question & relays the answer back to us all.

bms;53475 wrote:I guess Justin is best informed here and there must have been some communication between Sawgrass and the DSF Admin for there to be the cautionary posts circulating. As for the worst that could happen... I think if I were in Sawgrass's shoes and a forum was openly discussing a route to sublimation printing that went against the legal protections that are in force then I could imagine a legal challenge being launched. Given the mismatch in size between Sawgrass and the DSF Forum then the worst could be lights out.

I don't think that would be in the interests of anyone on here and that's why the DSF Admin and 'the management/ mods' have the policy they have.

see what you're saying martin but that doesnt mean all conversations would advocate the use of such inks you as a supplier mustve heard every daft question possible from newbies and i know there are newbies on here who have asked the question why doesnt my mugs work with durabright ink? should we then tell these misinformed few sorry cant answer you its not sawgrass ink or fred blogs who has a machine so big he could print big ben 1:1 who has a problem with his chinese ink theres nothing wrong with this guy discussing this after all its wide format i cant in all honesty see that sawgrass could have any legal issue with this when all is said and done i can talk about jack the ripper but i cant commit his acts

bms;53477 wrote:Can't say I know this from first hand experience, but from TV programmes I've seen then don't arrests happen if you are a user? I think the law applies to possession and dealing (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/drugs/drug-law/).

in real life it looks bit different.

Justin;53481 wrote:The issue I have personally is that we are giving advice to members who clearly are using non supported printers and third party sourced inks. Whilst the former is not usually admitted it is often assumed and this is where I see the grey area.

Discussing these inks isn't really an issue I wouldn't think but how can they be discussed without members admitting using/buying them?

As I say, I'll speak to Sawgrass and find out what the score is and report back.

well... I 100% understand you Justin. But i would sugest to seek advice in more independent source

Ian M;53482 wrote:
I did take the supported route like most of us did all those years ago & if I was starting out now I would do just the same again. I then decided to take a different route after gaining the knowledge & experience that you need to take such a step. I also took a gamble too & this was really to see if I could save some money which I have done. Jonathan (JSR) did the same as me going down the Brother route & he also has had a lot of success too I'm pleased to say. We have proved with a bit of thinking & experience it can be done without any loss of quality at all. The thing that does annoy not only me but, some others is that we now have so called instant experts on this forum who have gone down this route using that knowledge & experience it has taken someone else to build up & put into practice. These people will come running back to the forum when they have problems with this non supported set up wanting an instant fix from us & this is where the problem lies. If I have a problem I have a damn good idea what has caused it & I will fix it myself using the knowledge & experience I have gained going down this route.

amen...

this is down side of it all :/

As you said IAn we can do all fixing if something goes wrong by our selfs as we gain this knowledge over the years... some "new" guys thinks this is blessing for them but as you said again... soon will be back if something goes wrong. thats why i never tru to tell somone to use cheapest inks and printer to start with...
But i wil never deny that licensed printers and inks are not only option.

Brett, when did your supermarket start selling cans of worms?

Paul;53484 wrote:in real life it looks bit different.

maybe true where you are paul no so down this way iv known of some guys getting their doors bust open in dawn raids because they have a smoke but are not dealers

Ian M;53487 wrote:Brett, when did your supermarket start selling cans of worms?

its a new line ian seems very popular must be a lotta fishermen about lol