DSF

A lot of the rub with sublimation blanks, is that they are not always competitive when compared with other print methods. As DTG develops and more secondhand machines hit the market, they will become a viable alternative to subli tees. Waterslide transfers give a cheap way to decorate a lot of ceramic and hard surface items.

I'm sure if a certain ink manufacturer was to have more reasonable prices and those that produce sublimation blanks realise we have to sell a usable (and cost effective) product, the whole sublimation industry could possibly have a much brighter future.

Suppliers won't support plate-printing because there isn't the demand, and there isn't the demand because suppliers won't sell plates.

I'm not sure that's strictly the case. We used to sell plates, but the demand wasn't there so we stopped selling them. We had recent (within last 12 months) demand for plates so brought them in and they've been sitting in the warehouse for the last 12 months. There aren't many businesses out there with plate presses, so the demand for plates is low (given only a few business have them and they traditionally haven't been popular, especially with the fade issue of manufacturer's incapable of producing perfectly flat printing areas on plates, as well as the potential for cracking if you don't preheat and so on). However, the metal inserts for plates (notwithstanding the comments made), provide the ability for printing perfectly across the face in a press that most businesses have, a flat bed press - no cracking, no fading, no special heat press.

those that produce sublimation blanks realise we have to sell a usable (and cost effective) product, the whole sublimation industry could possibly have a much brighter future.

I don't think this is going to be likely from now on in given the inflation affecting manufacturing and prices in China, the poorer exchange rate now compared to a couple of years ago and the Yuan being allowed to float more realistically against the Dollar. This all points to rising costs of raw materials which will have a larger knock on effect to sublimation blanks (the VAT increase in the UK is small in comparison - this is equivalent to around a 4 cents movement in the exchange rate between the £ and the $. We've seen bigger swings in a day on the ForEx markets!).

I think the prices for items originating from China, have seemed amazingly cheap for far too long now. You only have to go into any pound shop and you'll see items where you wonder how the retailer has ever factored in a profit margin, to say nothing of the logistics cost of getting them all the way from the far East onto the shelves of a UK shop.

Perhaps in the not too distant future, a certain business may change it's name to Two Pound Land.

bms;13765 wrote:I'm not sure that's strictly the case. We used to sell plates, but the demand wasn't there so we stopped selling them. We had recent (within last 12 months) demand for plates so brought them in and they've been sitting in the warehouse for the last 12 months.

This is what I'm saying though. Stocking the least popular large plate in one style at a price of 50% more than Listawood isn't entirely what I'd call getting behind the product. No wonder they're still sitting in your warehouse.

bms;13765 wrote:There aren't many businesses out there with plate presses, so the demand for plates is low (given only a few business have them and they traditionally haven't been popular,

Again, this is the whole Catch-22 "chicken and egg" situation. Hardly any business has a plate press because no reputable supplier sells an affordable plate press. How are we supposed to have plate presses when the only ones available are ones of dubious origins from ebay?

My plate press is the one I bought from you many years ago which is why I say it needs to be replaced - but replaced with what? No one sells them anymore, and no supplier is interested in standing behind plates.

Suppliers seemingly operate a revolving door policy on many products that seem to be the flavour of the month one minute and then disappear the next, but plates were abandoned years ago.

I could be cynical here, but I'll refrain from that.

bms;13765 wrote:especially with the fade issue of manufacturer's incapable of producing perfectly flat printing areas on plates, as well as the potential for cracking if you don't preheat and so on).

As I mentioned previously, plates these days are much better than they used to be. Earlier plates had a bump in the middle that pushed off the heat platen. Plates today tend to have a slight indentation in the middle which allows the platen to sit straight (at least they do on the 8" ones I buy from Listawood).

The fading issue is because the heat platens aren't very good - at least they're not on the press that I have. I have two platens - one at 6" dia., and the other at 4.5" dia., - but you can't press within an inch of the edge because the platen doesn't get hot enough there. It's because it's a cheap press, I understand that, but it's also because it's an old press. I don't know if they've improved them over the years because no one sells plate presses anymore, and the ones on ebay all look like mine.

The plates have improved over the years in other areas too - such as being Orca coated, so they're now dishwasher-safe. When I started out they would fade when handwashed. Now they're much better.

It's easy to blame the plates, and there are issues with the plates that need addressing (such as quality control and different styles), but the issue surrounding the fading is largely due to the heat platens which produce far too much heat in the centre and far too little at the edge.

I'm sure there must be better plate presses at an affordable price available since I bought mine from you (and I'm not talking about ones costing £650+VAT like the one Listawood sells). I don't see why they should be so difficult/expensive to produce. I've been semi-vaguely tempted to try out the one that Lovecut sells, but then I look around for suppliers of the plates and my enthusiasm sinks again.

bms;13765 wrote:However, the metal inserts for plates (notwithstanding the comments made), provide the ability for printing perfectly across the face in a press that most businesses have, a flat bed press - no cracking, no fading, no special heat press.

That may be true, but when people think of plates they think of ceramic plates - not metal serving trays. Although I don't recommend that people use my plates for eating from, I know some people do. That won't be an option with metal ones.

I had vaguely looked at the acquisition of a plate press, but it was more the fact that nobody seemed to sell specialist mailers for them that put me off. With mugs I can put them in a purpose made polystyrene mailer and I know with some certainty that they'll arrive in one piece, with the plates I have visions of sending out endless replacements for postal breakages.

The other concern I had for plates, was would there be a viable end market for them? A lot of old ladies would traditionally have a collection of commemorative plates on display in their houses, but is it a product suited to the more modern house and is it the type of product that would be bought by newer generations in sufficient volume?

As JSR points out, there is a whole 'chicken and egg' situation as regards supply. If plates were widely available, along with specialist poly mailers, would the market open up, or is it a product that everyone in the supply chain would struggle to move? Foresight is a wonderful thing perhaps?

DREAMGLASS;13776 wrote:I had vaguely looked at the acquisition of a plate press, but it was more the fact that nobody seemed to sell specialist mailers for them that put me off. With mugs I can put them in a purpose made polystyrene mailer and I know with some certainty that they'll arrive in one piece, with the plates I have visions of sending out endless replacements for postal breakages.

For 8" plates, I had some doubled-walled boxes made up. They cost a bit - about 75p each the last time I bought some - but I added £1 to the end price and actually ended up selling more plates for a time.

When the boxes first arrived, I put a plate inside with no additional packaging and we played frisbee around the garden. No matter how far we threw it or how far it fell, the plate survived. We do, of course, add a bit of bubblewrap for extra protection when posting out but I've never had a breakage with the 8" plates in these boxes.

I haven't sold enough of the 10" plates to do the same thing, so I'm not sure how they would survive posting. It's possible to have the boxes made up in a different way for added strength but, as I say, I haven't sold enough to put much thought into it.

this thread could do with being "sliced off" where it has developed into a discussion so the original wanted thread could remain, and the useful information thats coming though shown somwhere people will see it

Actually I think everything in this thread is directly relevant to the original post. Buying a press is only one part of it, if you then struggle to find suitable blanks to put in said press.

Martin has outlined some practical reasons as to why plates are not readily available, JSR has offered a practical solution to packaging plates, all of which would be of direct interest to someone parting with their hard earned cash to buy a plate press.