DSF

Some of the copyright free websites can be useful - http://www.publicdomainpictures.net is good for some useful images, mostly on white backgrounds - making them ideal for a good white mug image etc.

I think the reality is that the real culprits are eBay themselves. They are happy to make millions a year out of allowing sellers to sell hundreds of thousands of copyrighted products on their site, with virtually no come back on them. Likewise PayPal also seem extremely happy to process the multitude of financial transactions involved, again with no comeback.

I believe the problem arises when people buy heat presses, have no artistic ability or have any concept whatsoever of what they are going to sell and where they are going to market it.

accdave;13320 wrote:Maybe we should all have a policy of reporting one ebay seller per week that sells the copyrighted stuff. You never know we might get a level playing field

Perhaps we could do something parallel to this. We could come up with our own "list" of respected printers who pledge not to do copyrighted work. A logo could be made up for our websites, paperwork, and other listings - something like "Printers Against Copyright Theft" - with a link back to the list to prove that we're on it. We could have a slogan, such as "We've made the P.A.C.T. - have you?" It could become a UK recognised "mark" so that everyone becomes aware of who is legit, and who's doing the I.P. thieving.

In other words, it's doing something positive for those who work our fingers to the bone in order to "do the right thing" while having our throats cut by those rip-off merchants who give everyone in the industry a bad name. Maybe it's time we repaired some of the damage they've done.

Just a thought...

JSR;13478 wrote: a link back to the list to prove that we're on it. We could have a slogan, such as "We've made the P.A.C.T. - have you?" It could become a UK recognised "mark" so that everyone becomes aware of who is legit, and who's doing the I.P. thieving...

Much of it comes down to the customers, in the same way that do they go out and buy a legitimate copy of a cd, or dvd, or burn a work colleagues copy on their home pc? People go and spend a fiver on a mug off eBay with absolutely no interest at all whether it is legit, made by enslaved children in third world countries, made by utter rogues in some shady backstreet workshop, or funds other criminal activities. All they see is the price tag of a fiver (or less) which they are quite happy to pay.

DREAMGLASS;13480 wrote:Much of it comes down to the customers, in the same way that do they go out and buy a legitimate copy of a cd, or dvd, or burn a work colleagues copy on their home pc? People go and spend a fiver on a mug off eBay with absolutely no interest at all whether it is legit, made by enslaved children in third world countries, made by utter rogues in some shady backstreet workshop, or funds other criminal activities. All they see is the price tag of a fiver (or less) which they are quite happy to pay.

That's true, but I think about the bigger customers who may not consider us as suppliers because they all think we're as bad as each other. I have some customers who I know return time and again because they know that their is no danger that I'll reproduce their work on anyone else's product. But it takes a long time to build these returning customers - presumably because they see how easily copyrighted stuff gets flogged on ebay.

If there was some kind of instantly recognisable and immediately verifiable mark, then we might be in with a better chance than those who do all the damage.

It's probably an unfeasible pipe dream, but it does annoy me when we all get tarred with the same brush as the quick buck merchants.

JSR;13478 wrote:We could have a slogan, such as "We've made the P.A.C.T. - have you?" It could become a UK recognised "mark" so that everyone becomes aware of who is legit, and who's doing the I.P. thieving....

P.A.C.T ............ love it ! Did you come up with this mate ?

AdamB;13483 wrote:P.A.C.T ............ love it ! Did you come up with this mate ?

Yes.

It's a play on the official organisation "F.A.C.T." (Federation Against Copyright Theft). I thought it sounded good.

There are already at least three organisations called PACT so it could get kinda confusing.

Intellectual Property is actually quite a complex subject. In fact the copyright laws in the UK are getting relaxed in spring of 2011 as there have been silly cases in recent times, such as where people have made comic spoofs of music videos to put on YouTube, people claiming copyright on logos when the other logo only looked remotely similar, plus many other idiocies. Even things like trademark infringement have huge 'grey areas'. For example selling car mats to fit a Land Rover Discovery, is infringing on the trademark by using the Land Rover name, although there is a fair use policy in English law at least, although the lines do not appear to be static.

DREAMGLASS;13486 wrote:In fact the copyright laws in the UK are getting relaxed in spring of 2011

As I understand it, a review is being undertaken which will report in April. It could be ages after the report before anything is changed, if anything ever is changed. I'll bet there'll be a lot of hurdles to overcome.

Although copyright (and I.P. in general) laws are quite Draconian, they are there to protect everyone - not just the big companies - so any changes/relaxations need to be done right.

To give an idea of the confusion out there, in America they have something called celebrity likeness laws, which is something that doesn't exist in the UK. In America though, the celebrity likeness law only applies in about 17 states, in the other states it has zero legal standing. If you use an official celebrity photograph you have a clear copyright infringement, although in UK law at least, the copyright of a photograph belongs to the photographer taking the photo, unless they have signed it over to a third party. I think that is why there is a problem with much of the 'unofficial' merchandise that is sold on sites like eBay. Whilst someone may claim that the 'artiste' is the actual intellectual property, it is a difficult premise in commercial law as it remains a concept, rather than being clearly defined.

Ripping off well established merchandise, for example 'Simpsons' merchandise is a clearly definable breach of someone's copyright, but the true counterfeiters out there will forge not only the item itself, but also the 'authorised merchandise' tag and even the legitimate packaging. On eBay at this moment in time, you will also see direct counterfeits of folks official trade logos, mugs with a well know coffee house logo, mugs carrying well known motor manufacturers trademark symbols, sublimated t shirts carrying well known childrens characters (legitimate ones are usually screen printed onto pure cotton).

Whole problem is the country is in a deep recession and people are just trying to save money by buying bogus merchandise. You won't stop the trade as the demand for cheap goods is just so great.