Problems with the Forum

[jennywren]

I understand that the funding is not needed now, but the sooner you start the less stressful it will be for you, advertising/sponsored sections is a way forward, it is a small price to pay to this forum going, and would be a lot easier than trying to collect memberships fees. It is easy to take the moral ground on this when members are getting the benfit of all the advice, suppliers links, but not the stess of of running this forum on a shoestring and sorting thing things out when they go wrong. I have had very good sound advice which has help me to move forwarded and without it I would still just only be doing mugs, and it was on this forum that they talked me through it. So I don't mind advertising or sponsored sections or paying the £10 a year just so I may continue, to be to be honest as I learn and make more money with the knowledge that I learn here, I don't care either way, and if members don't like it they can join another subdye forum, sorry to sound so harsh but nothing in life is free and always comes with some sort of price, money or principles so if we are to contuine we have to have one or the other so lets get behind Justin with ever he wants and let him do it.

[AdamB]

I'd pay £10 per year as it would be one hell of a bargain.

Justin you are doing a brilliant job & I think we all appreciate what you do for us all.

Your a star in my book.

Ian

ditto

[bms]

I'd add support to this. The forum is a great place to share ideas and problems and I appreciate the potential conflict of interest that I bring to the forum, but from an independant standpoint (if I could have one), then I think a contribution would be entirley reasonable and if this were to be slightly higher for the suppliers who post on here then fine.

[jennywren]

Martin I'd pay you £10 for all the advice you've given, if there is a small conflict it is more than repaid by the amount of time you spend posting, it should be suppliers that don't add to the forum should be charged, to me that seems fair, if we needed advice about insurances we go to a insurance broker and if you don't like what they offer or price you go some where else, I have often read post and then gone else where to buy. This is called bussiness, but I would not have gained this information if I not read the post and your answers, and this these applies to most members of this forum, and if they have brought of you it is because you offer what they want and at a price they can afford. Members also advertise what they do and have their websites on the forum, and the same as you Martin they share their advice and the suppliers they use, so it sorts of balances out. How ever things are done I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the forum may contuine.

[Justin]

Many thanks for the feedback and comments folks Echo what's been said here and will be looking at the way forward.

[thespringonion]

I'm more than happy to cough up £10 a year for all the support from fellow members. Collecting fee/setting up a membership system is definitely a pain, so if the banner advertisement provides enough funding to support the running of the forum I'm happy with that too!

[JSR]

We have a wealth of knowledge and brilliant technical support on offer so why should it be free? Just playing devils advocate I'm not in this to make money...not just yet anyway £10 per annum per member would seem incredibly fair and would give us a brilliant income to push things on but it just isn't needed right now.

I'll play Devil's Advocate for a moment as well, if I can.

You say that £10pa per member is incredibly fair because of all the wealth of knowledge and brilliant technical support on offer.

Don't forget where that knowledge is coming from. It comes from experienced dye-subbers who have developed their experience through trial and error. We've been through all the pitfalls, been out of pocket through trial and error, and are still here.

We then come to this forum, seek out questions from the inexperienced, and try to answer them. Our help benefits the newcomers.

Today's newcomer is tomorrow's competition. You're saying it's "incredibly fair" for experienced people to pay money to help their competition? How is that fair?

Of course it's fair to the inexperienced member because they immediately save money by avoiding the pitfalls caused by trial and error. With questions answered by experienced members, there's no time lost by experimenting and no money lost by ruined substrates. With the knowledge given freely, the newcomers build up their business, make money from the answers they were given, and compete in a tight marketplace against those very people who helped them. £10pa is an absolute bargain for that.

But what about those who provide that knowledge, that experience? They get nothing out of it. They've already been out of pocket to gain the experience and now we're telling them to be out of pocket again in order to help build up their competition.

Is it still "fair"? Do all experienced members here walk around with the word "mug" tattooed on their foreheads or something? In most walks of life, the inexperienced pay the experienced. Only here do we tell the experienced to pay to help the inexperienced. That's barmy.

As I say, this is just playing Devil's Advocate and it's not intended to provoke flame replies (and it's certainly not intended to be an attack on you or your suggestions). I've donated before and will donate again - that isn't the point. The point is that, as someone else has posted, "if you don't want to pay, you can go elsewhere". That's throwing out the baby with the bathwater because it would just result in all the experienced people going elsewhere (where they can offer their advice without being out of pocket) and will leave all the inexperienced sitting here paying their £10pa, not getting their questions answered, and then complaining at you because the membership is no longer value for money. That way lies the death of this forum.

We need to encourage experienced people to bring their knowledge and experience here, not tell them to "pay or go".

I'll probably get yelled at for saying all this because it doesn't sound as good as the repeated meme of "I don't mind paying to be here" but it's only my intent to put words to the other side of the discussion.

[AdamB]

JSR: I think what you are saying is correct, and I agree about what you are saying as "I" am quite a new member of the forum, who has posted numerous questions on a variety of subjects, all of which have been answered in depth.

Those with 'the knowledge' on this forum know who they are, and I 'always' go out of my way to thank them for their input (as does everyone else) as I believe that manners are everything.

I'm not sure if this would work or not, but maybe Justin could identify members of the forum who are the ones with knowledge and maybe create a seperate group for them (information experts), these members could then (maybe) be excused the subscription fee and in return they help out others (such as myself) with questions and queries (which they do anyway).

Everyone else would then me normal members who would be liable for the annual subscription, until which time that Justin would see that their knowledge has quickly expanded that they are now 'information experts'. They move into the category, and are now excused the annual subscription fee.

It's only an idea and although I do appreciate that this forum would be pretty empty without the knowledge of others, we should 'ALL' (members of the forum) note that Justin needs to decide whatever is best for the forum and indeed 'his pocket' and respect the outcome.

I for one have been a member of many (and still am) forums and I think the community here is OUTSTANDING (and that's a big thank you to everyone).

[JSR]

I'm not sure if this would work or not, but maybe Justin could identify members of the forum who are the ones with knowledge and maybe create a seperate group for them (information experts), these members could then (maybe) be excused the subscription fee and in return they help out others (such as myself) with questions and queries (which they do anyway).

I'm not too sure that could work because there's no real way to quantify when you change from being a beginner with no experience to being a person with experience. Does answering one question put you into the "non-paying" group? Two questions? Ten?

I think that'd be too complicated.

I don't know the answer. I just raise the subject for discussion because the last thing we'd want is for the experts to go elsewhere, or for new experts to not get involved because they'd need to pay to answer a question.

[AdamB]

I'm not too sure that could work because there's no real way to quantify when you change from being a beginner with no experience to being a person with experience. Does answering one question put you into the "non-paying" group? Two questions? Ten?

I think this would be a decision that administration and/or moderators would decide mate. The complication would only be on the part of others thinking that they would qualify ............ again, something that would be made clear by 'those in charge'.

It was just an idea, and I am sure whatever way it goes It'll be worked out for the benefit of all members and the forum itself.